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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
I've mentioned before my surprise at the animosity towards Hillary.
I'm astonished, myself, that you don't understand this. If she really cared about working class people all along, how is it that she was only able to articulate that after over a year of running for president? Not to mention her time in the Senate and an entire adult lifetime of intense interest in politics and public policy.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
I've mentioned before my surprise at the animosity towards Hillary.
I'm astonished, myself, that you don't understand this. If she really cared about working class people all along, how is it that she was only able to articulate that after over a year of running for president? Not to mention her time in the Senate and an entire adult lifetime of intense interest in politics and public policy.
I would express my revulsion in different terms. Perhaps they will communicate. I see the Clintons as a unit. They have presented themselves as a unit, claiming that you get "two for one" when voting for her, so I don't think that I am being unfair in that. While I'm disquieted by Bill's sexual proclivities, that is not what inspires my visceral response -- Teddy Kennedy was cut from the same cloth on that score, and as a public figure I find him admirable (even if I find him despicable as a man).
The problem to me with the Clintons is that they have no honor politically. It is all about them. This whole "triangulation" approach to politics is designed to furhter their personal position, not to further the political cause for which they stand -- because they stand for no cause but themselves. You can't adopt a strategy of triangulation if you believe in anything. Every view is defeasable. That's the very nature of the approach.
The Democratic party fell into complete disarray under the Clinton regime, and it did so because there was no leader in the party. Hillary is more of the same, and the country simply can't afford another eight years of such soulless leadership.
I am very concerned about the state of our court system, so I'll vote for her if she gets the nomination. But I would have to vote against a good man, McCain, to support someone who I find foul beyond expression. The irony of that is not lost on me...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
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Posted
On the BBC website on Friday:
quote:
A car dealership in the United States is offering a free handgun with every vehicle sold. Customers can choose between a gun or a $250 (£125) petrol card, but most so far have chosen the gun. Owner Mark Muller said: "We're just damn glad to live in a free country where you can have a gun if you want to."
[...] Mr Muller said that every buyer so far "except one guy from Canada and one old guy" chose the gun, rather than the gas card.[...]
He added that the promotion was inspired by recent comments from one of the Democratic nominees for the presidential election, saying: "We did it because of Barack Obama.
"He said all those people in the Midwest, you've got to have compassion for them because they're clinging to their guns and their Bibles. I found that quite offensive. We all go to church on Sunday and we all carry guns."
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
In a nation that big with that many people selling things, finding this sort of story is easy. Slow day at the BBC I assume....
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
I am very concerned about the state of our court system, so I'll vote for her if she gets the nomination. But I would have to vote against a good man, McCain, to support someone who I find foul beyond expression. The irony of that is not lost on me...
So McCain is more than a doddering imbecile in the pocket of drooling conservatives?
Careful, Tom: that type of sentiment isn't well received on this forum.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
In a nation that big with that many people selling things, finding this sort of story is easy. Slow day at the BBC I assume....
OK, fair point - it's not news, and anecdotes like that certainly don't prove anything. Still, as a complete outsider I find it an interesting story, even if it doesn't shed much light on the overall situation.
Looking back, have those Obama comments about guns, church and bitterness had much effect, or has it blown over?
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
Firstly, there's the little matter of the Florida result being decided 5:4 by the supreme court. In a way that went against the popular vote in America - and made it impossible to tell what the vote in Florida really was.
This should remind us that Hillary was not entirely correct when she told Floridians that the fact that their primaries have been spiked is not their fault. Floridians, presumably, elected their governor, the POTUS's brother Jeb Bush-- who, when a TV network announced that Florida had gone to Gore, first raised the red flags by protesting that this call could not have been correct: somehow he knew better. They also, presumably, elected the state representatives who set the date of the primary-- not to mention, the representatives who have enacted and supported one of the most vindictive criminal codes in the entire U.S. Unless, of course, someone wants to make the case that these elections, too, were rigged.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Floridians, presumably, elected their governor, the POTUS's brother Jeb Bush-- who, when a TV network announced that Florida had gone to Gore, first raised the red flags by protesting that this call could not have been correct: somehow he knew better.
Actually, just about any ignoramus who ever lived in the FL panhandle (Central time zone unlike the rest of the state and known as the 'Redneck Riviera') would have been a bit surprised when the MSM started calling the state for Gore before that not insignificant portion of the state's results were in.
(DAMHIK but Panama City Beach isn't a bad place to live.)
But of course: Bush = Bad so WTF does anyone who doesn't think that know.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Father Michael Pfleger has been noted on this thread (IMO rightfully) as a voice of moderation and now Obama feels the need to distance himself.
I keep wondering how Obama will fare when the MSM no longer has Hillary to kick around. It's also interesting to consider the timing of this news: right before the superdelegates decide.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
Father Michael Pfleger has been noted on this thread (IMO rightfully) as a voice of moderation and now Obama feels the need to distance himself.
I keep wondering how Obama will fare when the MSM no longer has Hillary to kick around. It's also interesting to consider the timing of this news: right before the superdelegates decide.
one could swear that these clergymen are in Hillary's pay considering the timing of their statements ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
45 pages and we've still got 5 months and change til election day. Goodness.
So the rules committee is meeting this weekend and the likely compromise regarding Florida and Michigan is to seat half the delegates or seat all and give each half a vote.
I understand the need to achieve compromise for the sake of party unity but it just doesn't seem right given that only HRC's name was on the ballot.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
In a nation that big with that many people selling things, finding this sort of story is easy. Slow day at the BBC I assume....
Didn't actually need to go and find it. It was delivered in news bulletins on the national radio and TV! That happens over here sometimes. What would be to probably any other country an obscure story in the States gets headline treatment here. I don't know why this is; it just is! Although it helps that the story involves guns. There's an element of feeding a certain stereotype involved in reporting this particular story and it gives those Brits who need such things a chance to feel all self-righteous about themselves.
Meanwhile, reports have gone pretty quiet over here about the democrat race. I think it's all run out of steam really. It's hard to keep the thing going over such a long stretch but I'm sure as the convention approaches things will stir up again.
[ 30. May 2008, 18:03: Message edited by: Littlelady ]
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cqg:
So the rules committee is meeting this weekend and the likely compromise regarding Florida and Michigan is to seat half the delegates or seat all and give each half a vote.
I understand the need to achieve compromise for the sake of party unity but it just doesn't seem right given that only HRC's name was on the ballot.
In the interest of accuracy, it should be said that this is true only in MI. Both names were on the ballot in FL. The wild card in interpreting that is that neither campaigned there and the electorate knew that the ballot was not going to count, so it is hard to know who all would have voted or how had the normal process been followed.
Nonetheless, it is a pretty recent thing for voters to pick the candidate anyway -- this stuff used to all be done by party insiders. So it's hardly a new low for the party insiders to just decide what they want to have happen with the MI and FL delegation. But it does all cast a pall over the sense of openness in the process that the parties are now trying to foster.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
So, lets see now:
Comparing not allowing people who voted in a non-binding primary to the plight of Zimbabweans electorally
and
Encouraging people to picket outside of the rules committee
Does anybody else not see this a close to manic on the Clinton's part? The irony of alluding the Obama approach to that of Mugabe while encouraging supporters to picket/pressure a rules meeting must be lost on them. But, what if we were to call the people going to that protest something catchy, like...Independence Veterans or whatever Mugabe's thugs are called lately?
The whole Clinton "won" Michigan thing is really slimey.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Does anybody else not see this a close to manic on the Clinton's part?
The other words that come to mind are "desperate" and "clutching at straws." Every other Wednesday morning I wake up and look at the news, asking "is she gone yet?"
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
Yeah, I've taken to talking back to the radio when I hear clips.
"Pack it in, woman!"
(etc.)
Charlotte
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cqg:
45 pages and we've still got 5 months and change til election day. Goodness.
So the rules committee is meeting this weekend and the likely compromise regarding Florida and Michigan is to seat half the delegates or seat all and give each half a vote.
I understand the need to achieve compromise for the sake of party unity but it just doesn't seem right given that only HRC's name was on the ballot.
I think it pales compared to the ultimate hypocrisy of HRC turning this into some great struggle for the rights of the people when she had no problem with the decision of the DNC until just 3 months ago in convenient timing.
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
In regards to the Michigan vote, didn't I see/read that both Obama and Clinton had signed a statement that pledged they would not be on the Michigan ballot? But she was!?
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
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Posted
I don't remember seeing that anyone signed anything. Obama, Richardson, Biden, and Edwards withdrew their names from the ballot. Clinton, Dodd, Kucinich, and Gravel were on it. 40% voted for none of the above, uncommitted. I don't think those votes can be allotted to Obama, but I don't think HRC's 55% is a majority when 40% voted against her without voting for anyone. Maybe she should get 15% in Michigan. What if Edwards, Biden or Richardson had won Michigan? I wish I could see a good outcome for this. I don't envy the RBC right now.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
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Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
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Posted
And now, Obama has left Trinity UCC. This whole thing is making me ill. I hate that he caved and left the church. I hate that the country is such that he had to. I suspect that what Father Pfleger said wouldn't have been nearly as offensive if it weren't true.
I have a rant brewing about the Michigan and Florida delegations, too, mostly about the protesters. I don't see how it's a civil rights or voter suppression issue. The U.S. is not a democracy, it's a republic. We elect people to govern and represent us, and we're bound by what they do. The people of Michigan (less so FL democrats, since the republicans changed the date, AFAIK) elected the officials who decided to change the date of the primary. Vote them out the next time if you don't like it. Rules are rules. To me, this is dubya-esque selective enforcement of rules. We love the Constitution until it gets in the way of the War on Terror. Which is letting the terrorists win, isn't it? Please, if there's an argument not based on self-serving appearances for not enforcing the rules taking the delegations from FL and MI, tell me. And, I shouldn't be surprised at how rude we Americans are, but it makes me ill nonetheless.
Whew. Sorry about the rant. Sorry if I've gone too far toward hell.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
I'm saddened to read the news about Obama leaving Trinity UCC, but not entirely surprised. I've felt the need to leave one or two churches in the past, and it's never an easy thing. He'll probably take a lot of heat for this, but I'm sure he felt it was the right thing to do. My prayers are with him and his family.
On a lighter note, maybe Obama can do like many other U.S. presidents and become a good Episcopalian... We're always very tasteful and proper, we're generally liberal, we make killer gin & tonics, and our sermons are usually forgotten by coffee hour. It's win-win all around!
Besides all that, if Obama had the occasion to walk in a procession, he'd look incredibly cool walking down the nave at National Cathedral in a cassock and surplice. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
On a lighter note, maybe Obama can do like many other U.S. presidents and become a good Episcopalian... We're always very tasteful and proper, we're generally liberal, we make killer gin & tonics, and our sermons are usually forgotten by coffee hour. It's win-win all around!
Besides all that, if Obama had the occasion to walk in a procession, he'd look incredibly cool walking down the nave at National Cathedral in a cassock and surplice.
Episcopalian proselytizing? What is this world coming to???
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
Besides all that, if Obama had the occasion to walk in a procession, he'd look incredibly cool walking down the nave at National Cathedral in a cassock and surplice.
They'd need to have the EMTs ready. If we thought there was a lot of swooning at his rallies, . . .
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cqg:
45 pages and we've still got 5 months and change til election day. Goodness.
Yeah well us junkies only quit when we have to.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
On a lighter note, maybe Obama can do like many other U.S. presidents and become a good Episcopalian...
You're in good company, LiG. Two minutes ago, right at the beginning of Le Show, Harry Shearer suggested that Obama should consider becoming an Episcopalian. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
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Posted
So, HRC is planning a speech in New York tomorrow night. I think her announcement will be that she's taking it to the convention, or at least to the credentials committee. Why else would she be talking about the popular vote so much? It's not how the nominee is chosen, although post- Bush v. Gore, it is hard for the democrats to argue against the popular vote. Of course, her popular vote count includes Michigan. I think, at least, she needs to subtract those who showed up to vote for uncommitted rather than her. It's one thing to choose candidate A over candidate B, and something else entirely to choose no candidate at all over candidate B.
So, what do people think? Will it end tomorrow? My prediction is no, but from what I've read in the press today, I'm in the minority.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ps118:
So, HRC is planning a speech in New York tomorrow night. I think her announcement will be that she's taking it to the convention, or at least to the credentials committee. Why else would she be talking about the popular vote so much? It's not how the nominee is chosen, although post- Bush v. Gore, it is hard for the democrats to argue against the popular vote. Of course, her popular vote count includes Michigan. I think, at least, she needs to subtract those who showed up to vote for uncommitted rather than her. It's one thing to choose candidate A over candidate B, and something else entirely to choose no candidate at all over candidate B.
One of the delicious ironies in the MI primary is that the voters were not allowed to write in a candidate's name. Still, literally tens of thousands of voters did. Those voters' votes were disallowed by the same MI party leaders who sat in front of the rules committee complaining that all the votes [for HRC] needed to be counted, because the vote was sacred, notwithstanding some arbitrary rules of the party! The hypocrisy of it all would be hilarious if it didn't make me so furious...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
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Posted
I didn't know about the MI write-ins. Wow. I literally shed tears of frustration on Saturday, it made me so furious. I get way too involved and I should know better than to expect anything but hypocrisy, I know, I know.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
On a lighter note, maybe Obama can do like many other U.S. presidents and become a good Episcopalian...
You're in good company, LiG. Two minutes ago, right at the beginning of Le Show, Harry Shearer suggested that Obama should consider becoming an Episcopalian.
Everybody should try it at least once. I did. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Right...so if Clinton announces on Wednesday she wants to take this all the way to the convention,
what do the Democratic party head honchos do?
Do they let her go and risk ruining the chances of the fall?
Do they finally take her aside and say enough is enough?
Do they mostly get behind Obama and tell her to take a flying leap off a short pier?
They all seem to be waiting for her and or him to do something and it ain't happening yet.
Will Obama do something on Tuesday?
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
now she's hinting again at the Vice Presidential nomination. Obama would be a fool to do it.
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
On a lighter note, maybe Obama can do like many other U.S. presidents and become a good Episcopalian...
You're in good company, LiG. Two minutes ago, right at the beginning of Le Show, Harry Shearer suggested that Obama should consider becoming an Episcopalian.
Everybody should try it at least once. I did.
Libera nos, Domine ab omnibus malis
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Do they finally take her aside and say enough is enough?
Please, please, please let this be the case.
Obama would have to be completely nuts to make her the Veep. Imagine if you were Obama, having both Clintons hanging around the White House again, second-guessing every move you made ... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
That and who needs Clinton to be on the ticket, apart from the few rabid Clinton or nobody supporters who will shrink as things get closer to November? And, she isn't going to go for a cabinet position.
Has anybody ever seen Clinton quit? IIRC, when the health project under Bill died, she didn't pull the plug as much as it faded away while other things came up to use their energies. I don't see that happening this time.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Obama has already displayed his expertise with political expediency in recent days (dumping his church of 20 yrs) and it won't surprise me if he'll do the same by offering Billary the VP slot. When you look at it objectively, the partnership would be unstoppable in the general election. One obvious point weighing against Obama chosing Clinton to garner her supporters is McCain's laughable immergence as Bush III - and all that implies. Obama could chose the dogcatcher of El Dorado, Texas and beat McCain this Fall.
I am soooo looking forward to the debates this Summer. Everything from McCain's Washington lobbyist campaign officials to his connection with tax haven banks and the sub-prime debacle will explode in his face - not to diminish his support of the military-industrialist war in Iraq. The poor old fart is the Republican sacrificial lamb before the Obama juggernaut.
Nice of the 'Pubs to leave such a disgusting international and domestic mess to clean up.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
I've wondered what would happen if Obama just started acting like he had the nomination -- if he started campaigning against McCain, instead of Hilary, and acting like the nominee, and treating Hilary as if she were irrelevant. Really just not paying attention to her at all.
She wouldn't like it. But if he ignored her, and focused on starting his presidential campaign, would everyone else follow along?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Obama would have to be completely nuts to make her the Veep. Imagine if you were Obama, having both Clintons hanging around the White House again, second-guessing every move you made ...
<shudder>
That, and IMO for the general election it's not the dream ticket some Democrats think it is: Hillary is anathema to many conservatives and could well motivate some to vote who otherwise wouldn't so I believe Obama needs someone more moderate. Here's one opinion:
quote:
Only one name jumps out at you who could provide experience, foreign policy knowledge, and maybe provide the best chance for Obama to steal away a red state. It's former Georgia Senator Sam Nunn, who endorsed Obama last month. A Democrat hasn't won an election without a Southerner on the ticket since 1940, and a non-incumbent Democrat hasn't taken an election without one since Woodrow Wilson did in 1912 (and he had Southern roots at that).
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
On a lighter note, maybe Obama can do like many other U.S. presidents and become a good Episcopalian...
You're in good company, LiG. Two minutes ago, right at the beginning of Le Show, Harry Shearer suggested that Obama should consider becoming an Episcopalian.
Everybody should try it at least once. I did.
Yes, and you inhaled.
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Bad Christian (TM)
Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Looks like Clinton's going to pack it in today.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Hooker's Trick
Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89
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Posted
An interesting perspective in the Post today (free registration may be required).
An excerpt:
quote:
I loathe what has happened to Hillary Clinton. This person of no mean achievement has been witchified, turned into a shrew, so that almost any remark of hers is instantly interpreted as sinister and ugly...
I loathe also what Hillary Clinton has done to herself. The incessant exaggerations, the cheap shots, the flights into hallucinatory history -- that sniper fire in Bosnia, for instance -- have turned her into a caricature of what her caricaturists long claimed she already was. In this campaign, Clinton has managed to come across as a hungry hack, a Janus looking both forward and backward and seeming to stand for nothing except winning. This, too, is sad.
I loathe what has happened to Bill Clinton.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
There's a website that tracks the superdelegates.
Superdelegates web page.
Looks like the Obama supporters in Michigan are being rolled out slowly like a dripping faucet.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
So, according to a sidebar table on the site Og linked to, there are 31 pledged delegates remaining, and 190.5 superdelegates.
If Obama gets 34.5 more delegates, he wins the nomination. Clinton needs 200.5 more.
If the Democratic powers-that-be want this to be wrapped up soon (and it seems as though they do, and this would be a good thing), instead of pressuring Clinton to get out, why aren't they pressuring superdelegates to declare for a candidate? Out of 190.5 of them, it shouldn't be impossible to get 34.5 of them to declare now.
Or are they all holding back, hoping for the 15 minutes of fame that would ensue for the one who puts Obama "over the top"?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
An interesting perspective in the Post today (free registration may be required).
An excerpt:
quote:
I loathe what has happened to Hillary Clinton. This person of no mean achievement has been witchified, turned into a shrew, so that almost any remark of hers is instantly interpreted as sinister and ugly...
I loathe also what Hillary Clinton has done to herself. The incessant exaggerations, the cheap shots, the flights into hallucinatory history -- that sniper fire in Bosnia, for instance -- have turned her into a caricature of what her caricaturists long claimed she already was. In this campaign, Clinton has managed to come across as a hungry hack, a Janus looking both forward and backward and seeming to stand for nothing except winning. This, too, is sad.
I loathe what has happened to Bill Clinton.
That's a very interesting and well-written article, Hooker's Trick. I rather liked the writer's use of "Cheneyed" as a verb.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
"Mr. Chairman, the great state of Texas defers..."
I remember those conventions....states competing to see who put the boss over the top so he might remember them.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Looks like Clinton's going to pack it in today.
Depends on what the meaning of "pack it in" is.
I think she'll concede that Obama has the delegates.
I don't think she'll concede the nomination nor will she officially end or suspend her campaign. She wants to take this all the way to the convention -- and perhaps beyond. She'll continue to keep her faithful energised to vote either for her (write-in in the general election) or for the other guy.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Exactly. She is going to admit he won, while not giving up. I think she's going for Veep, but it may just be a tactic to get something else.
Anything else...
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cqg:
I don't think she'll concede the nomination nor will she officially end or suspend her campaign. She wants to take this all the way to the convention -- and perhaps beyond.
What will her point be?
It's interesting that she can point to a few landslide victories late in the game, without nearly giving her a majority of delegates. But the more she points to these, the more she suggests that late votes should count more than early votes-- or perhaps that there should not be such early votes-- the very opposite of her desire to get the excessively early votes counted. The irony should not be lost on us.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
...Out of 190.5 of them, it shouldn't be impossible to get 34.5 of them to declare now.
Or are they all holding back, hoping for the 15 minutes of fame that would ensue for the one who puts Obama "over the top"?
27.5 to go as I post. My guess is the uncommitted SDs are coming out slowly so that Obama gets close enough that the South Dakota or Montana primaries put him over the top. That way his nomination appears more the work of the voters.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
AP is calling the delegate count to Obama.
Hillary just waved her Veep flag high.
This is going to get interesting. Methinks Hillary may yet get to be Healthcare Tsarista.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
After weeks of quite a sleepy pace, it all looks pretty exciting again now that the final primaries are here and the superdelegates have to show their hands.
What has Bill been on about the last couple of days? I caught some news about him having a little rant about the media being in favour of Obama and how everyone was out to get Hillary. He really doesn't do her any good; should have kept out of the whole thing. Not that it's my concern but he does sound silly sometimes.
FWIW, I think those who don't favour Clinton as VP to Obama have the right idea: Obama would have the Clintons looking over his shoulder at every turn. Also, it might look a bit weak if he did choose her, given the comments made earlier in the race about his lack of experience when compared to her (apparent) comparable experience. I'm guessing he will offer her a role (would she take it?) - he'll need to help get her followers on-side as best he can - but I just can't see him choosing her as veep.
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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