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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
So, the question is, how do we feel about President Palin?

Only if it's this one.
[Big Grin]

quote:

Because I give it 3 years till it's true. [Big Grin]

While I agree that McCain won't last four years (he'd be 76), I still hope and pray that the voters won't even give him three years.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Swish
Shipmate
# 8566

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
[qb] So, the question is, how do we feel about President Palin?

Only if it's this one.
[Big Grin]

The pardons would be great fun.

Welease Wodderick.

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Sorry Ted. I was concentrating too hard on looking holy.

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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
So, the question is, how do we feel about President Palin?

No less experienced than Obama?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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I notice Obama mentioned Kansas at the beginning of his speech. Parents from Kenya and Kansas, as if both were equally exotic.

OK. maybe the regional and sectional aspects of US politics are exagerrated over here, where (amongst us political hacks) it is almost a given that Americans try to balance out the coasts and the regions. Perhaps it doesn't matter any more which state you come from. Maybe the Democrats figure that people who won't vote for you just because you come from north St. Louis aren't going to vote for a black man anyway so why bother?

But neither Obama nor McCain particularly come from anywhere like most Americans come from at all. Obama was partly educated abroad and is Haiwaian if he is anything. (Hawaii is the state in the USA with the most mixed-race population IIRC) McCain was basically brought up in the Navy - born in Panama, educated in Virginia, and when he ran for Congressman in Arizona he supposedly said that the place he'd lived longest was Hanoi. His running mate is an Alaskan.

Hawaii? Alaska?? Canal Zone??? There's not a lot of heartland in there.

And what there is is mainly Joe Biden's - who comes from Pennsylavia and Delaware, self-identifies as working-class and takes a train to work every day - not an experience many mid-western or southern Americans of his generation and younger can relate closely to.

As for speeches - I didn't hear all of Obama's (I has the TV on but I fell asleep - it was about 3am over here) but there is a script on the BBC website. It seems OK, but not astonishingly moving to me.

But then like I said we Brits are both more cynical than Americans and ruder.

According to [url-=http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-tightens-grip-on-podium-speeches-2008-08-26.html]TheHill.com[/url] the Obama campaign has been censoring speeches at the Convention taking harder-hitting comments out, watering them down a bit. They claim that Dennis Kucinich was asked not to say:

quote:
They’re asking for another four years — in a just world, they’d get 10 to 20.
In this country the only reason to get that cut out would be because the candidate wanted to nick it. People like Ken Livingstone or Michael Portillo, or Norman Tebbitt, or Margaret Thatcher, even Tony Blair before he got to be PM, are routinely far ruder than that.

And does everybody have to have a rags-to-riches story?

Obama had the compulsory being nice to John McCain's war record and a few possibly good soundbites like

quote:
I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to take a 10% chance on change.
and

quote:
It's not because John McCain doesn't care. It's because John McCain doesn't get it.
Also some rather worryingly protectionist-sounding comments (though no commitments) and a vague promise to fix health insurance and laegislate for paid sick days which if it comes off could be the biggest advance in healthcare in the USA for decades - if it comes off.

This next bit is mostly motherhood-and-apple-pie and these days few people, even on the Right, would be very surprised by it:

quote:
We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country.

The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.

I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination.

Passions fly on immigration, but I don't know anyone who benefits when a mother is separated from her infant child or an employer undercuts American wages by hiring illegal workers

But its a better apple pie than Bush and McCain's

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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moron
Shipmate
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And dammit I'm zero for four: my only hope for prophet status now is that the repubs squeak this one out.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
Yes, but don't forget that not every American woman voter advocates abortion as a means of birth control. Whether or not you want to believe it, Obama lost a lot of "swing voters" when he came out as pro-abortion. (And don't bother telling me that "no one is pro-abortion." In this arena, that's bull.)

How many American women advocates abortion as a means of birth control? And if you're going to call people's statements "bull," you'd better start backing up your own. You have yet to line up a single fact to back up any of the reactionary claims you've made on this thread.

Palin is an interesting choice, but it's going to make it very hard for McCain to argue that Obama doesn't have the experience to be president, and since that's the single strongest argument he had, choosing Palin will prove to be a mistake.

quote:
Originally posted by ken:
I notice Obama mentioned Kansas at the beginning of his speech. Parents from Kenya and Kansas, as if both were equally exotic.

The way it plays over here is a tying together of the exotic and the quintessentially ordinary.

quote:
OK. maybe the regional and sectional aspects of US politics are exagerrated over here, where (amongst us political hacks) it is almost a given that Americans try to balance out the coasts and the regions. Perhaps it doesn't matter any more which state you come from. Maybe the Democrats figure that people who won't vote for you just because you come from north St. Louis aren't going to vote for a black man anyway so why bother?
Balancing out the geography used to be a big deal in picking a VP candidate, but that's really gone away. Clinton and Gore were southern white boys from continguous states.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Josephine

Orthodox Belle
# 3899

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The article in our local paper about McCain choosing Palin includes this about her background:

quote:
She is a former mayor of Wasilla who became governor of her state in December 2006, after ousting a governor of her own party in a primary and then dispatching a former governor in the general election.

More recently, she has come under the scrutiny of an investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that she ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper.



I don't know if that should be "fire" or "hire" in the last sentence -- either way, given some of the controversies with the current administration, it sounds like she'd fit right in.

If McCain wanted to pick a woman, why did he pick someone with no experience and questionable ethics?

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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

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Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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Some months back, one of the UK Sunday papers (could have been the Independent) ran a big article on three possible Republican female VP candidates. From memory, the writer was of the opinion, even then, that McCain would choose a female to run with him, on the grounds that if Hillary were the Democrat nominee, a female VP would take the wind from her sails somewhat; whilst if (as has happened) Obama won the nomination, a female VP would appeal to women voters disappointed with not having a first female presidential candidate to vote for.

Palin was one of the three possibles who were profiled. I remember thinking back then that of the three she would be the most likely:

a) She's very photogenic (aka "cute")
b) She's a working mum
c) She's got pretty substantial conservative credentials

So - to be honest - this UK person only mildly interested in the US elections (I got fed up ages ago with the way the UK media were hyping the nomination races) is not at all surprised at McCain's choice.

If I have a moment, I will try and see if I can find a link to the newspaper article.

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

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eeGAD

Wandering Stowaway
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And what there is is mainly Joe Biden's - who comes from Pennsylavia and Delaware, self-identifies as working-class and takes a train to work every day - not an experience many mid-western or southern Americans of his generation and younger can relate closely to.

I'm going to have to disagree. At least on behalf of the midwesterners.

I was born and raised in Nebraksa. The heartland of the heartland. And no, we do not take the train to work. Our cities are too small for the necessity of a train, or a subway. Even the larger cities, like Omaha. However, commuting to work on public transportation is something that Midwesterners see as something "normal" for the "average" big-city dweller to do. If I had moved to Kansas City or Chicago, I would have assumed that I'd be taking the train to work. (Heck even moving here to the DC area, we assumed the subway!)

The train makes Biden seem more typically midwestern, not less. Public transit gives him a whiff of common-man. If he actually lived in DC, took a private car, or sat in beltway traffic in a Lexus then Biden would seem much less like a midwesterner. Somehow less relateable.

My family back in Nebraska simply can't get their heads around much of what is considered day-to-day life in DC. It's just not what they are used to experiencing. The train in something that they can hold on to as "just like me" even though they don't take the train themselves. Mentioning the train in describing him was a clear should out to me that Biden is trying to sell himself hard to the heartland.

eeG

eta: who's in charge of getting comet's input on the gov. of Alaska?

[ 29. August 2008, 16:55: Message edited by: eeGAD ]

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You don't fix faith. It fixes you. - Shepherd Book

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:


If McCain wanted to pick a woman, why did he pick someone with no experience and questionable ethics?

She does have more executive experience than Obama, Biden, or McCain for that matter, and the timing was perfect.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Two years ago she was the mayor of a small town of what, 6000 people? 7000? If you think Obama's not ready, can you say Palin is?

CorgiGreta: The word really is supposed to be "fire" -- her sister and brother-in-law were apparently going through a divorce. But I wouldn't be surprised if the ethics charge turns out to be baloney -- payback from people who are pissed off with the real ethics reform she's delivered.

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Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Palin is an interesting choice, but it's going to make it very hard for McCain to argue that Obama doesn't have the experience to be president, and since that's the single strongest argument he had, choosing Palin will prove to be a mistake.

I agree, Ruth. Color me downright puzzled. (Being a lifelong Democrat, I was afraid it was going to be Lieberman.)

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Bad Christian (TM)

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Anna B:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Palin is an interesting choice, but it's going to make it very hard for McCain to argue that Obama doesn't have the experience to be president, and since that's the single strongest argument he had, choosing Palin will prove to be a mistake.

I agree, Ruth. Color me downright puzzled. (Being a lifelong Democrat, I was afraid it was going to be Lieberman.)
I think what you may be missing here is the fact that Obama is now in the position of comparing himself to the GOP-VP as a means of blunting the lack of experience attacks. Weak position to say the least. "Vote for me because
his VP is a rookie too!"

And as has been pointed out, she has several years of executive experience over Obama.

Well played by camp McCain.

Barr/Root 08

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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stagflation
Apprentice
# 14061

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Ethically I don't think Palin has much to worry about. When was it decidedx that every politician had to be a saint. Look at the track records of effective politicans, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton. they had the morals of alley cats when it came to playing the game but they all left a political legacy. tale carter on the other hand, good man but ineffective president even though he arguably had the opportunity to transform America post watergate. the only game he had was hunt the slipper and he got creamed by a b lister from hollywood.

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so that's what i think, y'know

Posts: 16 | From: kent | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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Maybe now the campaign debate can move from glass ceilings and color blindness to differences in policy... but I doubt it.

[Sic'em Biden! Rorf! Rorf!]

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478

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The choice of Palin may turn out to be a bold move and it certainly gets attention, but I don't find it convincing.

Does anyone believe this was the most qualified Republican woman for the #2 spot? Perhaps the most photogenic? It seems like an attention-getting trick to me (which is not necessarily a bad political move, but still...).

I suspect Comet may be busy with her Real Life job right now, but I am anxiously awaiting her take on the whole thing.

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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
...it certainly gets attention

As evidenced by the timing of the announcement. So much for Obama's convention "bounce".

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--Formerly: Gort--

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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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Sarah Barracuda: change we can believe in. [Big Grin]

quote:
The young Sarah Heath once won the title “Miss Congeniality” in a local Alaska beauty contest. But her high school basketball teammates had another nickname for her, one that belied her genial surface: “Sarah Barracuda”. Those monikers may sum up the contradictory political appeal of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, John McCain’s surprise choice to be his vice-presidential nominee.

She’s young, a fresh face, and a self-described “hockey mom” who eloped with her high school boyfriend after college. At the same time, she’s made a career of running against, through, and over Alaska’s old boy political network.

To win the governor’s mansion in 2006, she had to defeat the incumbent, scandal-weakened Gov. Frank Murkowski, in the primary. In the general election, she faced a former governor, Democrat Tony Knowles – and beat him handily.

“Her experience in shaking up the status quo is exactly what is needed in Washington today,” said the McCain campaign in a news release announcing the Palin pick.


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comet

Snowball in Hell
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Two years ago she was the mayor of a small town of what, 6000 people? 7000?

about that within city limits, but it is the commercial center for about 80K, including my community.

oh, and not two years. two years ago she ran for Gov and won. her term as mayor was up a few years before that, and hen she was appointed to the Oil and Gas Commission, where she exposed unethical behavior and got the Repub Party president fired in a public scandal, and pissed off about 3/4 of the local GOP.

re: the ethics question regarding Trooper Wooten - Sarah may have blown it, but if so It was stupidity, not intentionally trying to misuse office. An aid was putting the pressure on, after lots of people around Sarah had heard her bitch about the guy. I can easily accept that the aid took the initiative.

I dont believe Sarah is a saint, but IMO her dedication to ethics and open government is beyond question. long before she became governor, she took some strong public stands on ethics that got her on the wrong side of the good old boy network, and they were nasty.

She is a brave woman. personally, I think she was crazy to say yes. Her little boy was born in May, for christ's sake!

[ 29. August 2008, 19:48: Message edited by: comet ]

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
Does anyone believe this was the most qualified Republican woman for the #2 spot? Perhaps the most photogenic?

well, it all depends on what McCain was looking for. Sarah is a bundle of energy and a take-no-bullshit person. She is very pretty, but not even a little demure. I suspect McCain may not know exactly what he's in for! However, I have faith that if he does something crooked, she'll let us know.
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
I suspect Comet may be busy with her Real Life job right now, but I am anxiously awaiting her take on the whole thing.

not the job, alas, but the building project.

here's a clue to my take on it - I have voted for two republicans in my voting career. Sarah is the one I don't regret. and for the first time ever, I'm feeling a smidgeon of being torn between the choices.

just a smidgeon, mind.

I just finished scanning through the recent discussion. Palin is pro-life, true, but it has never come up here. some legislators try and pursue something every year and it always dies in committee. she certainly didn't attempt to add it to her agenda when elected. abortion just isn't a huge hot-button issue here.

she's opposed to same-sex marriage, (as is our state, as per a voter approved constitutional amendment. a low point in AK politics. one of many, I might add.) but she did approve same-sex couple's state benefits, which again annoyed the shit out of the GOP.

last year's local festival she let a local 8 year old paint her face. [Big Grin]

She still goes to fish camp every summer. and she immediately fired the governor's mansion cook, saying her kids could make their own tuna sandwiches after school, and she'd cook dinners.

politically I'd call her moderate. her savage budget trims (go get'em, Boss!) and demand for ethics reform has really pissed off most of the GOP and has gotten her some good friends on the left. Frankly, in this investigation into Commissioner Monagan's firing I suspect to be more of a vendetta-driven action than based on anything real. I could be wrong. but Monagan is no stranger to allegations of abuse of office, either, so he's not exactly the most trustworthy source. plus he'd just been fired. everyone gets a little pissy when that happens.

the Senate President, a very very right wing woman also from the same town as Sarah, just chose not to run again. I suspect, in part, because she tried to bully the (much younger) Palin and lost.

as for you all being surprised - really? the bloggy types have been talking her up since before Trig was born.

I'm just ticked that if the McCain/Palin ticket is elected, we're going to have a useless moron for governor.

and so far today the main reaction around here is "no! they can't steal our Governor!"

another thing I'm hearing - "maybe they'll finally listen to Alaskan issues?"

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
[...] personally, I think she was crazy to say yes. Her little boy was born in May, for christ's sake!

That's gonna be a brilliant and very worthwhile argument against her, and thus Mr McWhatshisname, methinks. [Cool]

[ 29. August 2008, 20:16: Message edited by: Wesley J ]

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
....and hen she was appointed....

So many jokes. SO many.

[Big Grin]

Given how many people were yapping about this everywhere I went today, and I went to three different geographic places where it was THE topic.....yup, this was a Coup at least temporarily.

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827

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Comet,

Didn't Palin defeat the incumbent Republican governor in the primaries?

Is it true that when she was elected she sold on E-Bay a new jet that some leading politician had just spent state money on?

The lady is hot. Shouldn't she change her name to Baberaham Lincoln?

Thanks,

Nick

--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
.....I think what you may be missing here is the fact that Obama is now in the position of comparing himself to the GOP-VP as a means of blunting the lack of experience attacks. Weak position to say the least. "Vote for me because
his VP is a rookie too!"

....

Having heard the full speech last night, he won't go down that route; its not an issue for them. The Dems will be full court press on the vision thing, not the experience.

Its taken away the experience thing completely from McCain, which is good because maybe people will focus less on personalities.

[ 29. August 2008, 20:43: Message edited by: Og: Thread Killer ]

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Comet,

Didn't Palin defeat the incumbent Republican governor in the primaries?

Is it true that when she was elected she sold on E-Bay a new jet that some leading politician had just spent state money on?

The lady is hot. Shouldn't she change her name to Baberaham Lincoln?

Thanks,

Nick

Nick - yes and yes. and it was that same gov that she defeated who insisted he have his own private jet, despite every other gov flying coach. he said it would also be for transporting prisoners, but of course it was way too busy transporting HIM.

Sarah sold it on EBay right after she was elected.

intersting side note - when Sarah was elected, our local elementary schoolkids sang a song to the tune of "Sarah Spondah" (not sure how that is spelled)

Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin Governor...
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin Governor...
(forgetting middle part)
We hope that you can dump that jet, spend more money on schools!


--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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I'm not convinced that the VP choice really affects how many people vote. Although given McCain's age, I was wondering if it was going to have more of an affect this year. Which makes Palin a bizarre choice...

But I'm kind-of waiting to see how McCain's campaign spins/ frames this...

quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Maybe now the campaign debate can move from glass ceilings and color blindness to differences in policy... but I doubt it.

One would hope. The candidates do seem to have neutralized a lot of the pros and cons they've been throwing around thus far. But sadly I suspect they're going to keep repeating them along with a lot of charges of hypocrisy.

quote:
[Sic'em Biden! Rorf! Rorf!]

Dear lord. Watching Biden get driven completely batshit is going to be an experience. If he really goes after her, I'm guessing a bunch of conservatives are going to play the victim card and accuse him of beating up the poor little girl; if he doesn't go after her, he'll get slammed for treating her as a helpless intellectual inferior because she's a woman. The chances of him making it through the campaign without a major soundbite just dropped considerably. If they're smart, outside of the debates they'll have Obama provide most of the criticism of Palin and let Biden concentrate on going after McCain.

During the convention coverage, I was struck by how the democrats seem to be trying to change people's gut-level perception of them from 'nurturing mommy' to 'strong, protective, firm but nurturing daddy.' While trying to shift people's perceptions of republicans from 'stern daddy' to 'reckless, irresponsible, abusive daddy.'

I understand the reasons why Palin may seem like a shrewd political choice, but I think McCain may have just played directly into that meme. So I'm still hopeful...

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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Palin is unlikely to play the sympathy card if Biden goes after her. she'll nail his ass to the wall.

with a smile on her face.

Seriously- this is no sweet and innocent little thing, she can be ferocious.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

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Excellent move by McCain, although we should have known he would go for a pretty, young bimbo. He has solidified and energized the religious right. He has strengthened his claims to being a reformer and change agent. He has neutralized pit-bull Biden. He too now has an hihstoric campaign. He is now a much more attractive alternative for Hillary supporters.

In the absence of some major mess up on his part, I am afraid he will win, and I am deathly afraid of the consequences. Oh well, I knew Bush would be a disaster, and in fact his incompetence went beyond my wildest fears, and yet the country survived.

Greta

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Socratic-enigma
Shipmate
# 12074

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... so just who are you going to vote for again?

(me thinketh the lady doth gusheth a little tooo much [Biased] )

S-E

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"Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them."
David Hume

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Comper's Child
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# 10580

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quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
\Oh well, I knew Bush would be a disaster, and in fact his incompetence went beyond my wildest fears, and yet the country survived.

Greta

Yes, we've survived. So did Germany after Weimar and one hope Iraq, too will survive. Yes, these are extreme examples but simple survival isn't quite enough - or is it?
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Excellent.

I may just vote Republican this year.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Ooh, major crosspost. That last was to Comet. I'd like to see ANYONE in government who'd nail someone else's ass to the wall over logic or ethical issues.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Dear lord. Watching Biden get driven completely batshit is going to be an experience. If he really goes after her, I'm guessing a bunch of conservatives are going to play the victim card and accuse him of beating up the poor little girl; if he doesn't go after her, he'll get slammed for treating her as a helpless intellectual inferior because she's a woman. The chances of him making it through the campaign without a major soundbite just dropped considerably.

I think we need to have a pool on it. I'll wager a Trader Joe's Pound Plus chocolate bar that Biden's going to get caught on mike calling her "that little girl."
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
GoodCatholicLad
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# 9231

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Palin is unlikely to play the sympathy card if Biden goes after her. she'll nail his ass to the wall.

with a smile on her face.

Seriously- this is no sweet and innocent little thing, she can be ferocious.

She reminds me of Tina Fey in a way.
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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Palin is unlikely to play the sympathy card if Biden goes after her. she'll nail his ass to the wall.

with a smile on her face.

Seriously- this is no sweet and innocent little thing, she can be ferocious.

Oh, I'm not talking about what she would do; I'm talking about what the media and right-wing noise machine would do.

But if she makes it impossible for them to play the victim card on her behalf, all the better.

--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Foolhearty
Shipmate
# 6196

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
Yes, but don't forget that not every American woman voter advocates abortion as a means of birth control. Whether or not you want to believe it, Obama lost a lot of "swing voters" when he came out as pro-abortion. (And don't bother telling me that "no one is pro-abortion." In this arena, that's bull.)

How many American women advocates abortion as a means of birth control? And if you're going to call people's statements "bull," you'd better start backing up your own.
Thank you, Ruth.
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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

Palin is an interesting choice, but it's going to make it very hard for McCain to argue that Obama doesn't have the experience to be president, and since that's the single strongest argument he had, choosing Palin will prove to be a mistake.

Not to mention the fact that Obama can quite rightly point out that he's been saying along along that he doesn't think that years spent in Washington are an accurate indicator of ability to be president, while McCain has been attacking him for his lack of experience. McCain has now picked a running mate that has no experience in Washington and limited experience in government. Which means that either he's been lying with his attacks and emphasis on experience, or he doesn't think that the vice president needs to have the qualifications that McCain himself has said are necessary to be president. It has to be one or the other.

quote:
I think we need to have a pool on it. I'll wager a Trader Joe's Pound Plus chocolate bar that Biden's going to get caught on mike calling her "that little girl."
Go ahead and PM me your address.

<sigh> if Delaware only had tv and fewer engineers

--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
moron
Shipmate
# 206

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The more I read about Palin it may be the best of all worlds if the repubs win and McCain croaks sooner rather than later.

I get the impression she could step up to the plate and then some, if the details surrounding the birth of Trig are any indication: she's apparently tough as nails.

At the very least only someone with balls, erm, ovaries would have named her son that.

Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... Dear lord. Watching Biden get driven completely batshit is going to be an experience.

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
... Seriously - this [Palin] is no sweet and innocent little thing, she can be ferocious.

Mark your calenders. The only VP debate is scheduled for Oct.2 in St. Louis. I suspect this little soiree will out-gun the prez debates for bloodletting. Oh! The humanity! *gleefully claps hands*

Her appointment may well be the smartest decision of McCain's campaign. Palin is definitely a shot of adrenaline for McCain's doddering, anemic image. Which begs the question: Just how long does anyone think McCain can survive the stress of the Oval Office before popping his clogs? He turned 72 today. I'd give him 18 months before he checks out and Sarah Palin takes over. At least she brings authentic conservative Republicanism back to the party while retaining the ability to shake things up. Now, if only she could lose that high-pitched strident tone...
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
...She is a brave woman. personally, I think she was crazy to say yes. Her little boy was born in May, for christ's sake!

It's the power of the Dark Side. Resist not, she can.

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915

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OK, then I'll raise the issue that dare not speak its name:

Deciding to run for the second most demanding job in the United States four months after giving birth to a disabled child does suggest a toughness, but what else does it suggest about her? Evangelical opinion leaders who propound the "Kinder, Küche, Kirche" role for women have hailed her anti-abortion position, but what will they say about that?

That issue aside, if my 43-year-old Governor -- after having four children -- got pregnant just months after taking the oath of office, I can't say that I'd be too thrilled, especially if her husband's job kept him away from home, too.

She seems like a very intriguing candidate who has shown substantial courage in the face of the status quo. And I think it was a creative choice for Senator McCain. But don't think her interesting personal story is an unadulterated "win" for undecided women who are viewed as Independents or moderate Democrats.

[ 30. August 2008, 00:59: Message edited by: Presleyterian ]

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SeraphimSarov
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# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Two years ago she was the mayor of a small town of what, 6000 people? 7000?

about that within city limits, but it is the commercial center for about 80K, including my community.

oh, and not two years. two years ago she ran for Gov and won. her term as mayor was up a few years before that, and hen she was appointed to the Oil and Gas Commission, where she exposed unethical behavior and got the Repub Party president fired in a public scandal, and pissed off about 3/4 of the local GOP.

re: the ethics question regarding Trooper Wooten - Sarah may have blown it, but if so It was stupidity, not intentionally trying to misuse office. An aid was putting the pressure on, after lots of people around Sarah had heard her bitch about the guy. I can easily accept that the aid took the initiative.

I dont believe Sarah is a saint, but IMO her dedication to ethics and open government is beyond question. long before she became governor, she took some strong public stands on ethics that got her on the wrong side of the good old boy network, and they were nasty.

She is a brave woman. personally, I think she was crazy to say yes. Her little boy was born in May, for christ's sake!

Isn't she also under investigation?? (aren't ALL Alaska Republicans under investigation?) [Smile]

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804

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quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
But don't think her interesting personal story is an unadulterated "win" for undecided women who are viewed as Independents or moderate Democrats.

It would be seriously underestimating the female electorate to believe they would vote Republican simply because of this.

This looks like it will be another close election.

In the meantime I'd love to see a ban on all political TV, radio, newspaper, and direct mail advertisements. Let the candidates get the word out on their own, with TV, radio, and newspaper coverage spreading their platforms in an unbiased manner (with a non-partisan media bias committee issuing severe penalties to non-compliant agencies).

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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915

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I can't say that I disagree with you on the issue of campaign advertising, Martin L. But if I recall correctly, one of those pesky amendments to the Constitution stands in the way of that. Which is it? Hmmm, let me think.

Oh, yeah. The First one.

As for women voters and Governor Palin, what I think some women might find insulting is that with Kay Bailey Hutchison, Olympia Snow, Christine Todd Whitman, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, Jodi Rell, et al., right before his eyes, this is who he chooses.

[ 30. August 2008, 01:22: Message edited by: Presleyterian ]

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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All those worthy candidates ain't purdy enough, Presley. I mean - check out McCain's wife.

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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Oh, my! In other news - Hurricane Gustav is scheduled to hit the gulf coast near New Orleans just in time for the Republican convention taking place up-river a few hundred miles. That will teach them to pray for rain in Denver yesterday.

--------------------
--Formerly: Gort--

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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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Cross posted with Gout. Good ONE!!!
[Killing me]

Presley

The Teutonic Goddess is asking whether you are in favor of Obama given your (last I heard) "Blue Dog" status? She also was wondering whether ye would have voted for Hillary prior to Obama winning the nom? She respects your opinion and wanted your unvarnished thoughts. I already told her what you should think, but she doesn't seem to be satisfied with that.

Thanks in advance.

[ 30. August 2008, 01:44: Message edited by: Mad Geo ]

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612

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I'm guessing there aren't a whole lot of electoral college votes up for grabs in Alaska.

So what does that say about the conventional wisdom of choosing a VP candidate from a swing state / region that you need to win?

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Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

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quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
Oh, yeah. The First one.

Oh, don't worry too much about it. At least one of the candidates doesn't believe that election campaigns are covered under the Bill of Rights.

Thank you for voicing some of my concerns about Palin before I got here. If I'm going to be accused of being a misogynistic jerk, I couldn't ask to be in better company.

I suppose that a 43-year-old, new governor is as likely as anyone else to have a condom break and wind up unexpectedly pregnant. Nevertheless, taking on the Vice Presidency while coping with an infant (let alone one with a serious medical condition!) implies that one commitment or the other is not being taken as seriously as it deserves. I like her evident backbone, but I have to seriously question Palin's judgment.

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076

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I presume that the Republican VP canidate, like most other working women, uses daycare or something of the sort.
Also, I doubt she'd be expected to work overtime.

[ 30. August 2008, 02:39: Message edited by: Gwai ]

--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804

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quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
I can't say that I disagree with you on the issue of campaign advertising, Martin L. But if I recall correctly, one of those pesky amendments to the Constitution stands in the way of that. Which is it? Hmmm, let me think.

Oh, yeah. The First one.

Everything in politics is wide open to change. Restrictions are made, provisions are defined. One cannot, for instance, develop a schismatic snake-handling sect whose sole religious practice is to inflict unwanted snakebites on unsuspecting passersby.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged



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