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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: chasing the Black Dog - a depression support thread
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I saw a GP today, and he asked lots of questions about what triggered my "episodic depression." He kept going till I started to get shaky and panicky. I've had counselling before, but its always been quite calm. He thinks that flashbacks, triggers, disturbed sleep and the weird disassociated feeling suggest PTSD, rather than depression. He's referring me to a psychiatrist.
I think this may be the light at the end of the tunnel.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
NEQ ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) I know it sounds like a strange thing to say - but this does sound hopeful. I live with PTSD, which has responded well to the therapy I have had.
Best wishes.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
That is excellent news, NEQ.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
What WW said. {{{NEQ}}}
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
I think this may be the light at the end of the tunnel.
Hey NEQ - I really hope you're set up with someone you find it OK (if not easy) to talk to.
Talking of lights at the end of the tunnel - encouraged by posts on the last page of this thread, I bought a 2nd hand sad lamp on ebay. It was still not cheap (I'm tight), but here I am sat in front of it as I type, squinting slightly. I'm comforting myself with the thought that since my car just failed its MOT and I have to fix it in the road in the dark evenings, this thing is quite robust and is going to make a really useful work lamp once I add a long cable and a hook to hang it off things!
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
I've had the latest of my "one-to-one sessions" with a counsellor and I'm not sure it has been of any more use than having nothing at all.
I still go to bed every night praying that I don't wake up, and I still wake up every morning with that profound sense of disappointment because I have woken up. My first thought on waking each morning should be "Wow! This is the day the Lord hath made!" It's not. My first thought every morning is "Oh sh*t! I've woken up again." I wish I could tell somebody how I really feel without it sounding self-pitying.
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
Posts: 296 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2016
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
A suggestion TM:
Write it down - write notes for your sessions and read them back or refer to them or give them to the counsellor to read and explain it is too difficult for you to read them - but get it on paper and to them somehow.
When I was in the midst of my final breakdown I used to do that with my GP, my Clin. Psychologist and the Psychiatrist and it allowed me to tell them stuff I couldn't do otherwise. It also allowed them to ask me stuff and so they were able to help me.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
NEQ, even the worst PTSD can get better over time, as I can testify. If that's what it is, I'm glad.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
My first thought on waking each morning should be "Wow! This is the day the Lord hath made!" It's not. My first thought every morning is "Oh sh*t! I've woken up again." I wish I could tell somebody how I really feel without it sounding self-pitying.
I do not believe in shoulds about how one should feel. I think God would rather you told him how crap you feel for waking up than you pretend everything is fine. Basically, I think the prayer
"God this life is awful*, show me some good in it"
is totally valid and pretty Biblical.
Jengie
*If I was being truly Biblical that word would not be as polite.
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I agree with Jengie; be honest with God. Personally, I think WTF? counts as a prayer when other words are hard to find.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I have a question. I wondered if my recollection that I didn't cry much in the immediate aftermath of David's stillbirth, but got on with things was correct.
So I opened up my computer file of sent letters and went back to see what I was writing to friends then. I haven't reread those letters, possibly since I wrote them, 17 years ago. And the letters show that I was busy, busy, busy in the immediate aftermath. The letters themselves are all upbeat and positive. I'm actually quite incredulous that I managed to do what I did.
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?
I would say it's healthy as long as you are not going over exactly the same stuff over and over. From what you have posted, I think you're not doing that.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
It's the first time (I think). Certainly the first time in over a decade.
What has surprised me is that, although I remember incidents vividly, my remembered time scale is completely wrong. Events which I thought happened months later, happened weeks later. We seem to have immediately thrown ourselves into a flurry of frenetic activity.
For example, we had elderly relatives who were a nightmare to visit because they were a three hour car journey away (4 hours allowing for toilet stops with young children) and our children didn't enjoy long car journeys ("Are we nearly there yet?") plus they had downsized into a smaller property which was over filled with furniture and breakables, so our children (already experiencing cabin fever after the car journey) had to sit quietly when we visited. Fond as I was of the relatives, I hated visiting them.
We visited them 3 weeks after David was stillborn. What possessed us? The visit went badly wrong (something got broken, there were tears, and the three year old managed to squirt tomato ketchup across the table at dinner).
I can still remember the nightmare visit and being very stressed about the breakage but I hadn't realised we had actually chosen to have an inevitably stressful trip, three weeks after giving birth. I had remembered the horrible visit as having happened at least six months later.
People were being kind to us, but we don't seem to have been kind to ourselves.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
My mother did this after her mother died. She bought a truck, remodeled a house, and carried out a major move (poorly--they left behind loads of stuff and got cheated on the remodel).
I think it's how some people cope with grief. If you sit still, you have to think about it.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Was it a good strategy for your mother, LC? Because long term, I don't think it's been a good strategy for me. I can be fine for months on end, but then the disturbed sleep / flashbacks / weird disassociated feelings / feeling like I'm wading through treacle hits again. It's been seventeen years.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?
Revisiting deliberately is part of the healing process of PTSD - you're in more control if you revisit deliberately than if you are getting flashbacks. I don't know if this will be helpful for you, but when I had PTSD, I found the book 'Trauma and Recovery' by Judith Herman very helpful. She explains PTSD so well, and the process of healing.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Was it a good strategy for your mother, LC? Because long term, I don't think it's been a good strategy for me. I can be fine for months on end, but then the disturbed sleep / flashbacks / weird disassociated feelings / feeling like I'm wading through treacle hits again. It's been seventeen years.
It's probably too early to tell for my mother (this only happened a couple years ago), but we all thought it unwise. But then, nobody was listening to us!
But the business of having another go-round of flashbacks/dissociation etc. is not probably because of anything you did or failed to do. It's just the way grief works. And bound to happen, I think, regardless of what you do. The only thing to do is be patient and gentle with yourself.
I had to petrify up and handle all the business of my own father's death and cremation as my father's wife had fallen totally apart and my younger siblings have never handled a death and were at a loss. I did the necessary, but paid for it with a couple of years of nonstop flashbacks/dreams/intrusive memories.
Those have tailed off, but as I get closer to my father's age at death stuff is coming back. It's just another round of grieving, and it will put itself to bed sooner or later. Just as yours will. But I don't think there's anything you can do to prevent it or hasten it being over--it's normal. Though you can talk to a counselor/work with a doctor as needed, to soften the whole experience.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Today I went to a requiem mass for someone who has been very important to me. He had a very bad brain injury about 10 years ago, which means that his presence has been impaired for some time, but now he has actually gone.
Aside from the strange temporal effect of that, any bereavement, any death always brings back the feelings that surrounded my grandmother's death 20+ years ago.
Thinking about the two and my own state, I am brought up against something which occurred to me a few weeks ago during a sermon. There is a huge difference between grief as a stage and grief as a stage/process: it is healthy in the latter form, but becomes a deadly, dead weight if allowed to become the former. The burden of processing grief, and the associated energy drain, is huge, but collapse under it is dangerous, and causes a huge part of one's being to grind to a halt.
In my own situation, those ten years have meant that my heart is temporally confused, and hasn't yet entirely grasped that his death has now completely happened, though obviously the requiem has helped in this process. I now need to let myself catch up and return (both at the same time) to a single time, my heart-time, and grieve. How that works I don't know, but wish me luck...
[ 14. November 2016, 19:02: Message edited by: ThunderBunk ]
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
My first thought on waking each morning should be "Wow! This is the day the Lord hath made!" It's not. My first thought every morning is "Oh sh*t! I've woken up again." I wish I could tell somebody how I really feel without it sounding self-pitying.
I don't know anyone whose waking thought is that and I wonder whether you're putting an unnecessary pressure on yourself. Also, it seems to me that "self-pitying" is your judgement on your feelings; take that judgement off and perhaps you are simply left with feelings of despair and sadness that you feel able to share in your one to one sessions?
My thoughts are with everyone here . I've been having counselling for over a year now and it has helped enormously but a few things have happened in the past couple of weeks to throw me. It's scary to realise that dark place is not as distant as I thought it was. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Did you mean (in the first case) grief as a STATE?
yes, sorry, I did.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?
Revisiting deliberately is part of the healing process of PTSD - you're in more control if you revisit deliberately than if you are getting flashbacks.
How you approach flashbacks is a matter for you, but I'd second this. After my mother died I kept busy with all the arrangements that have to be done at these times, but then there came a point when there wasn't anything left for me to do. By then the fits of grief had calmed down, but flashbacks were becoming more of a thing. I found that asking myself spontaneous questions when they happened (like where am I, what's happening now, what do I feel, what am I dreading), and taking the first spontaneous answers that came up was quite illuminating. Standing in some of the scenes looking at them also helped the realization to dawn that time had passed since then and to talk things over with myself.
You say that you can be fine for months and then they suddenly happen. My own experience is that at stressful times I'm more likely to experience these than otherwise. Triggers aren't always what you expect them to be, or even obvious.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Approaching the second anniversary of my father's death (5 December) and now into the period when all events bring with them the thought "I was doing this just before Dad died".
I know this is not depression - it is grief and it is right. But it seems to make it harder to concentrate and to do all the things I have to do let alone look after myself and keep the black dog under control.
Thinking of you all, and that helps.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
For me the big quake of a week ago was a trigger, not so much the quake itself but the bungling of the information on evacuation, coupled with the government's victim -blaming attitude of, "of course you evacuate, dummies" when none of the other quakes required evacuation.
I hate this combination feeling powerless, coupled with both anger and tears.
Edited because I kept stuff up a quote from Nenya, that this is a response to.
[ 21. November 2016, 19:43: Message edited by: Huia ]
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
{{{EM}}}
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
It's everything that's going on in the world as well.
There are some physical conditions that are affected by external factors, e.g. they get better or worse with the weather. Why shouldn't depression be like that too? Global unrest, economic uncertainty, the threat of the far right - I suppose it's only to be expected that these have an effect.
I'd like some time off from everything. But so would everyone probably.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
EM, would the third item down here help? The second won't, but the third might....
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Yes. Yes it does. I don't actually have a copy of Vatican Broadside....
Thank you
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Sounds like you soon will. Think of it as a little Karma for all the times I've see your sig.
Glad to be of service,
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
BTW, I simp!y cannot hear Stavanger Toestub without grinning like an idiot. It might not be very long lasting therapy but I suspect you'd be prepared to give it a go.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Bene Gesserit
Shipmate
# 14718
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Posted
Could I beg some prayer, please? The Black Dog's bastard cousin, anxiety, is savaging me at the moment...
BG
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Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Posts: 405 | From: Flatlands of the East | Registered: Apr 2009
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Get thee back under the bed, O Anxiety!
Bastard cousin, indeed, and nearly as black...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Bene Gesserit
Shipmate
# 14718
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Posted
Thank you!!!
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Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Posts: 405 | From: Flatlands of the East | Registered: Apr 2009
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
from here, too, BG.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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MaryLouise
Shipmate
# 18697
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Posted
Bene Gesserit
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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”
-- Ivy Compton-Burnett
Posts: 646 | From: Cape Town | Registered: Nov 2016
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
{{{BG}}}
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Big hug for BG. And may we all have a spell or two of not feeling forlorn.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
BG and everyone needing it
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
First Christmas since Dad died. I don't want it to be Christmas. For me or for Mom. I want it to be June. No energy. No giveafuck. No nothing.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
BG, mousethief and anyone else needing prayers.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
{{{Mousethief}}}
for all whose Black Dogs are biting at the moment.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Bene Gesserit
Shipmate
# 14718
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Posted
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Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Posts: 405 | From: Flatlands of the East | Registered: Apr 2009
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I am aware I have been grumpy and difficult today but, on the plus side, I have survived Christmas and will now go to bed.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Thinking of you all with love, on this my first day back at work.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
to you, too - and to all Black Dog victims. May the B.D. stay firmly under the bed with the other monsters!
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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