Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
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sophs
Sardonic Angel
# 2296
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Posted
I thought Autons too. I didn't really enjoy the episode that much, but was rather excited at the thought of the Autons coming back.
Posts: 5407 | From: searching saharas of sorrow | Registered: Feb 2002
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badger@thesett
Shipmate
# 16422
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Posted
bit bemused that the Doctor so easily sided with the murderer who killed one of them, after he goes on about them having a heart etc... surely he should side with the ones being murdered or am I missing something?
-------------------- handle with care, can explode without apparent reason
Posts: 319 | From: Hull | Registered: May 2011
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Not sure they can be Autons, as Autons are plastic. We know the gangers have hearts and seem to be in all respects truly human, just engineered humans.
The Doctor clearly knows more than he is saying (he obviously wanted Rory and Amy out of the way, then when he, Rory and Amy first arrived at the Monastery, I think he mentioned 'almost people' before they actually appeared).
The gangers seem to go back and forth between looking exactly like their humans and looking melty, so you might not be able to tell real Doctor from ganger one all the time.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
The gangers' 'melty' faces are straight lifts from Odo in Deep Space Nine, although he could take on almost any shape. Overall, it felt just like last year's Silurians episode - cut off from the world (in a church/monastery), two sets of people/creatures trying to inhabit the same space, attempts at peaceful co-existence denied by one attacker. Only the ganger Doctor was different. Part 2 has some work to do if its not to fall into the 'pointless' category.
-------------------- "Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Rev per Minute: ... Overall, it felt just like last year's Silurians episode ...
It did, didn't it? And I'm not sure I liked it all that much. There was some good filming, great use of the locations, and a very adult feel to it. It also has an old-school Who feel to it - hints of Pertwee and Troughton for me. On the other hand, the gangers seem to be just a way of doing a rather worn-out sci-fi trope - the problem of identity - but in not a very good way (precisely because it is possible to tell the difference between the ganger and the original, because of the melty face thing). I think they're going to have to work hard to avoid the ultimate inevitable demise of some of the key characters being sentimental and maudlin.
Not a great hit with me so far, I'm afraid.
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Again a great episode. Clever, funny, bit scary. Good to see Rory getting a bit more real. Was it a "watch twice" episode? No. But hey I don't watch most TV once. Great to have Saturday evenings as a highlight in a dreary world of TV.
All the best, Pyx_e.
-------------------- It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by M.: Not sure they can be Autons, as Autons are plastic. We know the gangers have hearts and seem to be in all respects truly human, just engineered humans.
I also thought the Nestenes originated from somewhere other than Earth so I may be barking up completely the wrong tree but I was just intrigued by the Dr's comment.
-------------------- "Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
The flesh thing reminded me of "New Earth" when the cat nurses grew the new humans they also called 'the flesh' and kept insisting they had no thoughts and feelings until ten liberated and healed them and welcomed them into the human family.
Here in the US they're putting part two off for a week which is rotten for them to do.
-------------------- Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Matt Black: Liked it. Did I read too much but were there hints that the gangers might be proto-Autons or something ("your technology is only at its basic stage" )?
Maybe such technology underlies the Time Lords regeneration?
The great unanswered question in 45 years of Who is "Why do the Doctor, and all or most of the other Time Lords, look human when they aren't?" After all the Daleks, who are human, or were once, look nothing like us when you open up their little wheelchairs. They are far more closely related to us than the Doctor is.
quote: Originally posted by Rev per Minute: The gangers' 'melty' faces are straight lifts from Odo in Deep Space Nine, although he could take on almost any shape.
I think its a lot older than that! Must be some written SF with the same idea from long before Deep Spoace Nine ever got invented.
And remember The Faceless Ones from 1967 Who!
-------------------- Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Adeodatus: quote: Originally posted by Rev per Minute: ... Overall, it felt just like last year's Silurians episode ...
It did, didn't it?
Yes, but I found the Silurians story rather weak, while this is a lot of things it should have been. The difficulty of having exact copies who share everything that makes you who you are is a well-worn sci-fi concept, but the audience isn't entirely made up of superannuated SF geeks who've seen it all before, and it was still done with some style, with the exception of the silly and unnecessary snake-neck bit.
The Doctor suggested that it would take time for the Gangers to "set" for want of a better word (I think it was when he did the hot plate trick), so we may yet end up with entirely indistinguishable identical gangs (heh) facing off. He also seems to know far more than he's letting on - about the Flesh, what it becomes in the future, why they were there in the first place, Amy's Quantum Baby, and so on. And Rory's becoming more interesting and developed as a character by the week. I hope something isn't going to happen to him, because his constantly dying thing and the way he keeps being forgotten in subtle ways are... worrying.
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
I enjoyed that episode - a bit slow moving, but creepy and atmospheric, and it's nice to have a big science fiction concept at the centre of the story, even if it's a familiar one.
A full review and podcast commentary are now on my Impossible Podcasts site as usual.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: The great unanswered question in 45 years of Who is "Why do the Doctor, and all or most of the other Time Lords, look human when they aren't?"
You mean, other than the difficulty of writing stories that would have the audience engaging with the Doctor if he looked like Jabba the Hutt?
Ten was always going on about how magnificent humans were and how the Human Empire would span the universe and last billions of years and all that. So maybe we could retcon in an explanation about Time Lord physiology being chosen so as not to stand out from the crowd. You could also argue that they couldn't do a chameleon-circuit job on their biology every time they visited a new planet if only because it would have involved a huge technology redesign.
Landed on Skaro? Check. Ugly starfish blobby body? Check. Pepperpot armour? Check. Got rid of the stairs in the TARDIS? Doh!
[Edit: one day I'll remember to include all the words in a post.] [ 24. May 2011, 08:24: Message edited by: GreyFace ]
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: "Why do the Doctor, and all or most of the other Time Lords, look human when they aren't?"
Time Lords don't look human. Humans look Time Lord. (I think that's one of the first two Eleventh Doctor episodes?) Ok, a proof-text approach to Doctor Who continuity isn't entirely practical.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Great Gumby: The Doctor suggested that it would take time for the Gangers to "set" for want of a better word (I think it was when he did the hot plate trick), so we may yet end up with entirely indistinguishable identical gangs (heh) facing off. He also seems to know far more than he's letting on - about the Flesh, what it becomes in the future, why they were there in the first place, Amy's Quantum Baby, and so on. And Rory's becoming more interesting and developed as a character by the week. I hope something isn't going to happen to him, because his constantly dying thing and the way he keeps being forgotten in subtle ways are... worrying.
Maybe it is my memory malfunctioning, but when the Ganger got the electroshock, did the Doctor ever say that he was "dead"? My memory is that he said "His heart has stopped. He had a heart and you stopped it." That's not quite the same as saying he is "dead."
The reason this bothers me is because of Rory's reaction. At the end of the prior episode, Rory was explaining that he was upset at Idris dying because he is a nurse and she was just lying there and he could do nothing. Or something to that effect. Okay, that makes sense. He is in the medical profession and devoted to keeping people alive. So, if you are a nurse and you hear that somebody's heart just stopped, wouldn't you make some effort at CPR? It is not like the Ganger was lying there for hours before anybody noticed. It had just happened. Plenty of time to restart the heart. Maybe it was just dramatic license because they didn't want to interrupt the Doctor's speech, but it would have made me feel better to have Rory at least say something like "let me see him, maybe I can get the heart re-started" and then have the Doctor say "no, it is too late" or "Too late, the Flesh is dissolving."
So it seems like an inconsistent reaction from Rory. Which then makes me wonder--is that really Rory? After all, he had walked off on his own for a bit. Is there any reason to think that the Flesh didn't somehow copy him as well as the Doctor?Are we going to have Yet Another "Oh my God! They've killed Rory!" moment only to discover that he was a Flesh?
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
There was a preview on The One Show of the Doctor talking to himself, wich looked very cool.
I think there is liable to be quite a lot of not knowing who is "real" and who is a ganger will be a major feature of this Saturday, along with a continued exploration of what the difference is. Or rather I hope there will be some of this, because these two provide the farce-like-humour and the serious philosophical exploration.
-------------------- Blog Music for your enjoyment Lord may all my hard times be healing times take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
How many companions have been Nurses or Doctors? And how many of them have tried to save a hurt being?
The Doctors companions tend to be blank slates who's skills mean little for the story. They are there to scream and run and react and shoot and get all messy and ask him for help and basically move the plot along, not to actually help people with their skills.
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer: How many companions have been Nurses or Doctors? And how many of them have tried to save a hurt being?
In the classic series, Harry Sullivan was a doctor. And, yes, I seem to recall that he tried to give medical care to a hurt being fairly regularly. In fact, he oversaw several revivals in "The Ark In Space."
In the new series, of course, Martha was a doctor. And I have a vague impression she used those medical skills when she could, but I admit that I can't think of any specific example.
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Some companions have had useful skills, but usually those are being good at hitting things (Ian, Barbara, Leela, Ace). This is because the Doctor is better at anything scientific than anything the companions could plausibly be, and has also cornered the market on crazy plans that actually work.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
So now we have two Doctors and one got (will get?) killed in the first episode. The question is which Doctor will it be and does it matter which one because they are exactly the same?
-------------------- If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Thinking back on my list of past doctor/nurse companions, I should point out that Liz Shaw was a doctor, too. I left her off the list because she was more a scientist-type doctor rather than medical.
However, last night it occurred to me that when she was introduced the Brig read off a long list of her degrees. Without going back and watching the episode, I can't swear that she did not have a medical degree as well.
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
The Doctor has a medical qualification as well. He studied under Lister in Edinburgh in the 19th century. This was revealed by Patrick Troughton's Doctor in the Cyberman adventure which took place on the Moon.
-------------------- If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Rogue: So now we have two Doctors and one got (will get?) killed in the first episode. The question is which Doctor will it be and does it matter which one because they are exactly the same?
Well, I'm not sure they are exactly the same just at the moment. That may come out this week, possibly related to a significant amount of ostentatious sneezing, particularly in this episode, but also (I think) earlier in the series. And as discussed upthread, it would be really lame and obvious if Dr Ganger was the one shot in ep1, unless that's just a deliberate distraction from an even bigger storyline. quote: Originally posted by Hedgehog: So it seems like an inconsistent reaction from Rory. Which then makes me wonder--is that really Rory? After all, he had walked off on his own for a bit. Is there any reason to think that the Flesh didn't somehow copy him as well as the Doctor?Are we going to have Yet Another "Oh my God! They've killed Rory!" moment only to discover that he was a Flesh?
Possibly - but apply your own sig to the scriptwriting, and also consider the likelihood that a Flesh Rory would act like Rory. There was possibly something strange going on with either him or Jen at one point where they were looking for each other and it didn't quite seem right. Without having watched it again, which I must get around to, I thought there was more than one Ganger Jen. Might the Flesh be churning out multiple Gangers on its own, or could the Gangers make copies of themselves - sort of GangerGangers? In fact - here's a thought - could the "real" ones have been Gangers all along without knowing it?
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Michael Snow
Shipmate
# 16363
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Posted
What is it with Dr. Who's popularity? How many pages here? And on another Christian board, since the Dr. Whoo thread popped up, it has had 557 replies and over 22,000 views!
AND this on board where the most popular threads get a tithe of Dr. Who's replies and average a couple hundred views.
[it is in the 'Travel forum'! that has three threads and where my photos got 1 reply and 200 views]
I haven't watched it since the guy with the long scarf...who was my favorite Dr...but actually don't think it is on the our local PBS anymore.
-------------------- http://spurgeonwarquotes.wordpress.com/
Posts: 62 | From: S. Dak./ Romania | Registered: Apr 2011
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Great Gumby: In fact - here's a thought - could the "real" ones have been Gangers all along without knowing it?
If Philip K Dick or Theodore Sturgeon were the Dr Who scriptwriters that would be almost worth betting on!
Or maybe even Nigel Kneale - after all we are the Martians!
-------------------- Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Dont Know how that happened.
Anyway, speaking of great science fiction, don't forget that today is Towel day In honor of Douglas Adams.
-------------------- Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I did wonder if the original people were gangers in the first place, and the end of their rotation was when new gangers take their place.
There is a real possibility that the gangers could feature across the series. And Matt did say that there was a real cliffhanger at the end of the next episode.
-------------------- Blog Music for your enjoyment Lord may all my hard times be healing times take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by ken: quote: Originally posted by The Great Gumby: In fact - here's a thought - could the "real" ones have been Gangers all along without knowing it?
If Philip K Dick or Theodore Sturgeon were the Dr Who scriptwriters that would be almost worth betting on!
Or maybe even Nigel Kneale - after all we are the Martians!
Well, let's see. I just watched it again, and the bit at the end with Rory and Jen looking for each other had two odd aspects. Jen heard Rory calling before we saw him leaving to look for her (continuity/editing error, or more significant? There isn't a Ganger Rory, surely?), and the Jen who was looking for him was being stalked by Ganger Jen. But the one Rory was talking to before, who's the only one I can imagine calling for him specifically, was definitely a Ganger, as she kept changing every time we saw her. So either there's some strange psychic connection between them, or there's more than one Ganger Jen. I still like that theory.
I also noticed that the Ganger who died in the acid at the start said his heart had stopped, just like the Doctor did later when the Ganger was zapped. Relevant, or not?
-------------------- The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Ooh! I missed that! So the acid-bath Ganger said his heart had stopped, but he was still talking about it. This supports my suspicion that the Electrocuted Ganger is not dead--his heart has merely stopped and at some point he will pop back into activity.
As for the Rory/Jen thing, this is the problem. As you pointed out earlier, my sig line means that I can't rule out sloppy writing. I often find that I have this difficulty when watching shows like this: is an event suggesting a clever-tricky-brilliant plot twist, or is it just bad writing? I think Doctor Who has earned the right for me to assume that things that look like oversights to me are actually intentionally planned. So if Rory was calling Jen before he left to look for her, then there are two Rories (Rori?) and for the reasons I discussed earlier I bet the one that was with the Doctor et al. was the Ganger. There are also at least two Jens, although whether either one is the "real" Jen is open to question.
Oh, wow. Sudden thought: maybe the "real" Jen will turn out to be the villain of the piece, with everybody else being a Ganger. After all, wasn't she the only one whose "real" body was missing when everybody woke up? That would be a shock that sweet, sympathetic Jen (as a Ganger) turns out to be a baddie. Of course, that leaves open the question of how Ganger Jen could be so mentally different from Real Jen.
But if everybody else is a Ganger, why do we think that Gangers are the same as their Real counterparts? Maybe when a Ganger makes a Ganger they are identical, but when a Real person makes a Ganger they are different. If that is true, then Real Jen could be bad and Ganger Jen good. And that would mean that Ganger Doctor will be evil, along with Ganger Rory. Which would also explain why Ganger Rory didn't bother to try CPR on the Electrocuted Ganger! Dang! That is all starting to fit together!
Or not.
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
I think one hint was Jen saying that she could remember the excruciating pain of continually being decommissioned. Maybe it's driven her mad. [ 25. May 2011, 22:13: Message edited by: art dunce ]
-------------------- Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by art dunce: Anyway, speaking of great science fiction, don't forget that today is Towel day In honor of Douglas Adams.
Rats! Ratsratsrats. I forgot my towel today.
Sorry for the tangent. Back to Doctor Who.
-------------------- Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Did anyone else giggle in Confidential seeing them show off the piece of kit which duplicates a shot so they can do the ganger/real people shots? So ... it makes gangers then!
-------------------- *sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by art dunce: So wait, is this Ganger thing shaping up to be a combination of tomato in the mirror , expandable clone ,with perhaps a cloning gambit of some sort and the inevitable clones are people, too or even worse, and then John was a zombie thrown in? I hope that Moffat has something more original to offer us.
There wouldn't be much Doctor Who - or indeed much science fiction in general - if it wasn't allowed to reuse existing "tropes".
Spotting "tropes" can be fun, but identifying common elements often ignores all the things that actually matter about a story, such as character, tone and atmosphere. Originality comes from how you use existing ideas, the ways you combine them, the particular flavour you give to them. Pointing out tropes might look clever, but it's not really much of a criticism in and of itself.
I'd agree that this Doctor Who story isn't startlingly original. It also draws the moral questions in broad terms, as one would expect for a family audience at Saturday teatime. But I think it uses the idea of doppelgangers pretty well: it's entertaining and stylish, and the castle setting gives it a nicely gothic atmosphere that sets it apart from your run-of-the-mill industrial bases.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
I haven't really figured out the continuity of the ending of the last series but as it's relevant to this storyline, maybe somebody with a bigger brain can have a look at it. Spoilers for those travelling backwards through the series....
Rory is human and relatively normal. Rory becomes a companion and thus time-traveller which seems to affect reality-status a bit. Rory gets obliterated from reality. An Auton who looks like Rory as a Roman soldier turns up. Said Auton acquires human-Rory's memories and personality in a Heroic Willpower (that's enough TV tropes for me) event that either I didn't grasp or was plucked out of thin air. From that point on, Rory is treated as human-Rory with Auton powers until... The rapidly collapsing Universe is restored basically by rebuilding it minus the Doctor, and relatively normal human Rory is again around. The Doctor is restored to the Universe because Amy - again this is either unexplained or I missed it completely but maybe it's a consequence of being a time-traveller - is able to remember him, and as you can't remember something that never existed that brought him back into reality.
I think that's reasonably accurate so far. But in the current series, contemporary time-travelling Rory is able to remember, if he chooses, being Auton-Rory as well as, presumably, remembering being relatively normal human Rory in the restored universe. This raises all kinds of interesting metaphysical black holes but the one that's relevant right now is, Moffat seems to be arguing not only that a transfer of memory and personality is also a transfer or sharing of individuated identity (Auton-Rory = obliterated Rory = restored Rory*) but a connection so established means that each instantiation of the individual has access to the memories of another, even if that other has never actually existed in the current Universe.
So for as close as you're going to get to consistency out of this mess, any Ganger actually is its real counterpart in essence, they should be able to share memories, and if an original gets killed that's okay because the Ganger is not just a copy but another instantiation in reality of the underlying person.
* This is starting to look like a bad sermon on the Holy Trinity so I'd better stop.
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
quote: The Revolutionist posted:Spotting "tropes" can be fun, but identifying common elements often ignores all the things that actually matter about a story, such as character, tone and atmosphere. Originality comes from how you use existing ideas, the ways you combine them, the particular flavour you give to them. Pointing out tropes might look clever, but it's not really much of a criticism in and of itself.
It really wasn't an attempt to look clever, as I'm a dunce. The criticism comes in that the tropes don't seem to be tweaked or combined in an interesting way thus far (something I usually love about Who)but seem to be a bit cut and paste. My son reminded me that this episode was written by Matthew Graham and so perhaps I'm just not a fan.
-------------------- Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by The Great Gumby: Jen heard Rory calling before we saw him leaving to look for her (continuity/editing error, or more significant? There isn't a Ganger Rory, surely?), and the Jen who was looking for him was being stalked by Ganger Jen.
I noticed on rewatching that before the storm the Doctor leaves Amy and Rory in one control room. When Amy and Rory wake up after the storm they're lying by the ganger-making vat, which I'm pretty sure was a different room. And how did they get knocked out? So unless there was a continuity error, something happened that's not been explained, and the most likely something is that we're looking at ganger Amy and Rory.
There are problems with that. The main one is that they had even less contact with the vat of flesh before the storm than the Doctor did. The Doctor at least stuck his hand in. And it looks as if Doctor-ganger wasn't created until after everyone had woken up. Indeed, not until after the Doctor scanned the vat with his sonic screwdriver while rushing through (why?). So it's difficult to see how there could have been time. Also they'd be the only two gangers that have managed to stay stably human-looking for anything like that length of time. Rory's been unobserved for a lot of the time, but Amy's been continuously in company. [ 27. May 2011, 13:57: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I think it's safe to say that there's more going on here than meets the eye. Or maybe less.
As an ardent avoider of spoilers, I find myself lacking a rather basic piece of information about the current season - how many episodes are left? Is tomorrow the last, or next week?
-------------------- "What is broken, repair with gold."
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Adeodatus: As an ardent avoider of spoilers, I find myself lacking a rather basic piece of information about the current season - how many episodes are left? Is tomorrow the last, or next week?
Next week. We have tomorrow's episode and then another. The series resumes later this year.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Adeodatus: As an ardent avoider of spoilers, I find myself lacking a rather basic piece of information about the current season - how many episodes are left? Is tomorrow the last, or next week?
It is a little confusing. The full season is broken up into a Spring run and a Fall run. There are two episodes left of the Spring run. There will then be a pause until the Fall, when there will be six more episodes. But there is probably no mandate that all the plot threads of these first episodes need to be tied up before the break.
Heck, for that matter, we still have the dangling plot thread from last season--what caused the TARDIS to explode?
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
So if there is just the second part of this two parter and then one episode before the summer (which will have to involve a cliff hanger) does that mean that Amy's Schrödinger's baby will be born at the end of this next episode or not until the next? Certainly they won't drag that out until autumn?
-------------------- Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Oh, I think they will drag it out. Personally, I am looking forward to having her flash back and forth between "Not Pregnant" and "Nine Months Pregnant."
-------------------- "We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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art dunce
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# 9258
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Posted
Months are certainly an interesting concept if you're a time traveler. I guess some of the things eye patch lady said made me believe it might be sooner than later.
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Ariel
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# 58
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by art dunce: I guess some of the things eye patch lady said
Said? She speaks?
This really is blink-and-you-miss-it stuff. I remember her clearly from the episode with the Silence but not what she said. Has she been in every episode since?
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art dunce
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# 9258
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Posted
quote: Ariel posted: Said? She speaks?
"No, I think she's just dreaming".
"It's fine. You're doing fine. Just stay calm"
It was the second one. Maybe, it's because I've been in the delivery room a couple of times but that rang a bell!
-------------------- Ego is not your amigo.
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Avila
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# 15541
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Posted
watching repeat of rebel flesh - some of the early bits getting me thinking...
The Doctor is anticipating something - enough to suggest dropping the others off for fish and chips. Then when they arrive he says here it is as if familiar, enough for Amy to point out 'what do you mean we came here by accident'... Hmm...
He sounds like he knows to ask after their 'most critical system' and is expecting the Flesh.
Later just before heading up to the weather vane he makes a comment about needing to get there before all hell breaks loose, then pauses to say 'I never thought I'd get to say that again' (or something similar)
All this before any who's who debate even begins
So what does he already know???
-------------------- http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Avila: The Doctor is anticipating something - enough to suggest dropping the others off for fish and chips. Then when they arrive he says here it is as if familiar, enough for Amy to point out 'what do you mean we came here by accident'... Hmm...
I supposed that he wanted to get advice on Amy's maybe pregnancy. I can't see that he's in the right place for that.
-------------------- we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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