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Source: (consider it) Thread: The timeless Test - Everlasting cricket thread
Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
This could yet be interesting. If the pitch is becoming a minefield and England get a 1st innings lead of 70+ then India may be facing a battle against turn and uneven bounce on the last day.

Close. England's lead was 49 and the pitch is turning more, but England's openers are still there. I don't expect anything other than a draw and England may as well try to wear down the Indian bowlers with another Test starting in three days.
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Welease Woderwick

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I agree with Sioni, I think a draw is inevitable - Cook won't want to declare too soon and give India a chance

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Imaginary Friend

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Sometimes Cook's safety first attitude annoys me a bit, but in this case, I think it's well warranted. In the first game of a potentially very difficult five match series, a draw is a good result. I'd happily take that. There will be time for risks later in the series, I hope.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
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Welease Woderwick

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That was getting a bit close! I'll settle for a draw and I'm sure Kohli will, too.

In the end the pitch wasn't too bad, I expected it to deteriorate a lot more than that.

Now on to Vizag on Monday, I shall be away but will induce one of the hotel staff to instruct me in the use of the TV in my room.

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Imaginary Friend

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Yeah, I thought it was a good game. England will be very happy with their performance and the result. They've definitely 'put down a marker' as Beefy kept repeating.

And what a player our new opening batter is! So much potential.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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The BBC has run a poll for England's best captain and it can't be much of a surprise that Mike Brearley, probably the most intelligent man to captain England, and possibly play for England, came out on top.

More surprising is that Michael Vaughan was second. Clearly people have forgotten that the 2005 series was a very close run thing, with England winning the two matches that Glenn McGrath missed, and one of those by just three runs. I go with those who reckon Nasser Hussein was better: a good, tough captain, who dragged England up from no-hopers and handed a generally functional outfit to Vaughan and Strauss.

FWIW, I rated Douglas Jardine second: not a nice man by some accounts but an excellent batsman and close fielder and a very effective captain.

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Tukai
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Australia decided to stage a replica of Trent Bridge at Hobart. Hobart is the wettest and coldest city (cricket ground) in Australia, and the ground sits in a pretty location above a river.

So the Aussie cricket team decided Hobart was a suitable place to re-enact their last performance from Trent Bridge, though this time against South Africa: on day 1 they collapsed to be all out for 85 and on day 3 of play they collapsed again to be all out for 161, thus losing by an innings.

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Tukai
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

[snip]
FWIW, I rated Douglas Jardine second: not a nice man by some accounts but an excellent batsman and close fielder and a very effective captain.

Has anyone, except perhaps his mother, ever described Jardine as "nice"?

Even Larwood was so disgusted by the treatmemt he got from Jardine back in England that he (Larwood) migrated to Australia ! And as for the views of anyone from Australia....

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Sandemaniac
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I don't think it was so much Jardine - who I think actually Larwood had a lot of respect for (and certainly much respect the other way round)- so much as the MCC and the cricketing establishment that did for Larwood's career.

Meanwhile, India sit pretty thanks to Pujara and Kohli.

AG

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Welease Woderwick

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I was talking to a guy on the train the other night and he thought the Test at Vizag would be a matter of win the toss - win the game but I hope it gets more exciting than that.

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Sioni Sais
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Batting first would appear to help - I've heard that the groundsman reckoned the pitch would start to "do something" after lunch on Day 2, which is at least four sessions too soon.

Meanwhile, it seems that Hameed has been run out (Root). Is Root taking running lessons from G Boycott?

India by an innings I fear.

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Welease Woderwick

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England 103/5 at stumps so you may be right Sioni, and the run out of Hameed was a disaster. And the pitch is deteriorating as we watch - however expensive England make the last 5 wickets they still have to bat at the end which will we a pretty daunting prospect!

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Imaginary Friend

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It's oddly comforting to have the Real England™ back.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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It's some crumb of comfort for Australia. The next Ashes series (2017-2018 I think) could well be for 4th place behind SA, India and Pakistan.

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TurquoiseTastic

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
I don't think it was so much Jardine - who I think actually Larwood had a lot of respect for (and certainly much respect the other way round

Oh yes indeed - Larwood admired Jardine intensely. There's a nice extract at this link.
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Welease Woderwick

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As an aside II noticed today thatthe average age of the Barmy Army is now distinctly getting on a bit.

Ah well, it comes to us all in time - and I am no longer the svelte 21 year old I once was...

...and thank God for that!

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Imaginary Friend

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I don't know about the Barmy Army, but England's batsmen could definitely do with a second lease of life. Two rather disappointing collapses in conditions that were tough and required application, but weren't ridiculously treacherous.

<sigh>

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Welease Woderwick

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Is Ben Duckett waving goodbye to his England career? Poor lad, Ravichandran Ashwin seems to completely over-awe him.

And now on to Mohali which may be a kinder pitch all round - but then we don't want a stale draw.

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Welease Woderwick

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A kinder pitch? Well, I'm not sure England would agree after they lost 4 wickets before lunch on Day 1 after they won the toss and decided to bat! Most of those were the fault of the batsmen rather than the pitch - Hameed being the exception there who seems to have been a tad unfortunate.

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Welease Woderwick

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268/8 after the 90 overs in the day - Rashid and Batty batting with Jimmy Anderson still to come...

...but India can still bowl even with Broad out of the team.

This could get interesting.

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Imaginary Friend

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On a knife-edge. [Smile]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
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Welease Woderwick

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A bit over the edge now, I feel - 4 wickets down in the England 2nd innings and still 56 runs behind. Can England make a fight or a fist out of it?

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Imaginary Friend

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Another cracking debut by an English opener. Perhaps young Hameed is going to have a fight on to get his place back?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Another cracking debut by an English opener. Perhaps young Hameed is going to have a fight on to get his place back?

When I look at the rest of the talent available I'm sure there is room for Hameed and Jennings. England have had openers at #3 before, such as on the 1970-71 tour of Australia when Luckhurst, Edrich and Boycott were all openers and I'm sure at least two of them batted at #3, doing reasonably well too.

Overall, not a bad day. Best since the First Test, anyway.

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Imaginary Friend

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That's a good shout. Let Root move back down to 4, and Moeen can drop down the order too.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Welease Woderwick

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Can I now predict a draw in Mumbai?

With two days left to play on what seems to be a reasonable pitch a win by either side seems hugely unlikely. Even if India declare overnight England are in deficit so have to score 50+ to go ahead and then some to challenge India and there just ain't the time.

Series to India?

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
Can I now predict a draw in Mumbai?

No. Most likely match to India. They will bat through so as to get a lead of at least a hundred
quote:


With two days left to play on what seems to be a reasonable pitch a win by either side seems hugely unlikely. Even if India declare overnight England are in deficit so have to score 50+ to go ahead and then some to challenge India and there just ain't the time.

Series to India?

Very probably series to India. It isn't that good a pitch. England's spinners are getting turn and India's spinners are better. To win the match England will need to get India out again but also get enough runs. That means another innings of approaching four hundred (if India get a 100 lead) and they will have to get them by lunchtime on day five to give their bowlers time to get India out. FWIW I think Cook will order his men to go for it but the odds will be long because a) two of England's batsmen will have to get in and do something special and b) England's bowlers will need a day of days. My money is staying in my pocket!

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Welease Woderwick

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This probably shows what a Bad Person I am but I enjoy it when the statisticians say that X team has never, or always, won or lost under Y circumstances and then suddenly it all changes and the statisticians retreat into a corner...

...until the next time!

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Welease Woderwick

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You have been proved right, Sioni Sais, and I withdraw my comments of last night - I even wonder if India will need to bat again!

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
You have been proved right, Sioni Sais, and I withdraw my comments of last night - I even wonder if India will need to bat again!

They didn't, and now it looks like Captain Cook's voyage may be coming to an end. Hardly fair IMHO as plenty of other batsmen have achieved less and his bowlers have fallen a long way short. It can't be ignored that India are a very good side.
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Welease Woderwick

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A good day for England, let's hope they can maintain the momentum to go home having at least won a game.

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Tukai
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Meanwhile in Australia, instead of the now customary collapse by Australia, we have had one by Pakistan.

At the end of day 2 at the Gabba, Pakistan are 8/97 in reply to Australia's 400+ (which included centuries from Steve Smith - as one might expect- but also from new boy Peter Handscomb, who has fully justified his selection).

Hanscomb's 3 test innings so far are 64 and 2 n.o. (against SA) and 104 against Pakistan. But his equally new team-mate Nick Maddison has 0 and 1, which is not so promising. Like England's Hameed, Handscomb looks at home and unflustered at this level, and is a steady rather than spectacular scorer.

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Sioni Sais
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It's been quite a turnaround by Australia thanks in part to some ruthlessness by Cricket Australia. I can't imagine the England & Wales Cricket Board doing that even after a six-month investigation.

Handscomb does look the real deal and Renshaw too, who is doing the trickier job of opening the innings. There are some very promising new batsmen around at the moment. I hope they realise that they won't always succeed.

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Evensong
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I'm quite surprised by the ruthlessness of the change in the Australian team. Not normal. Seems to be working but.

Plenty of complaints about the day night test stuff. Apparently that is the reason for the Pakistani collapse. [Paranoid]

Pakistan is fourth on the ICC ladder but apparently don't do well overseas.

Not so keen on watching one sided cricket, but hey, at least I'm finally watching Cricket again. yay summer! [Big Grin]

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Welease Woderwick

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England 447/10 - but is it enough?

India 60/0 after 20 overs so run rate not exciting but under the circumstances probably okay.

It is anybody's game so far but tomorrow will, I hope, set the direction a bit better. A repeat of Mumbai is always possible but we'll have to wait and see.

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Sioni Sais
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When your opponents make 759/7 no, 477 is nowhere near enough! Moreover, India have made them quickly enough to give themselves a chance of winning the game.

Elsewhere, Pakistan ran Australia closer than they anticipated and Steve Smith looked a worried and confused man at times.

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Welease Woderwick

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Yes, I think we can now be confident that England won't win the game but that either a win for India or a draw are posibilities.

Turning your maiden Test century into a triple must be a very satisfying feeling, poor lad must be knackered!

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
Yes, I think we can now be confident that England won't win the game but that either a win for India or a draw are posibilities.

Turning your maiden Test century into a triple must be a very satisfying feeling, poor lad must be knackered!

I was impressed with the way he pressed on after reaching his hundred and then two hundred, knowing that India's best chance of forcing a win was to bat once.

For England it was very disappointing. At lunch the game looked like a draw. At tea a draw still looked a strong possibility but afterwards it seemed like England couldn't be on the plane home soon enough.

Apart from England's bowling woes the batting was underpowered. It's fair to say that enough hundreds were made, but they weren't what Graham Gooch called "Daddy" hundreds of 150 or 200 plus. India had some of those, and that gave them the big first innings totals that batted England out of the game. I'm not sure what captains and coaches can do about that.

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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960

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Back in Melbourne for the Boxing Day Test. Roughly one session lost to rain on each of days 1 to 4 (it is Melbourne, famous for having 4 seasons in one day!). Neverthless Pak batted patiently for the first 2-1/2 days for ~440, with Azhar (a classical opener) making 248 n.o. Aust made even more (with centuries to Smith (n.o) and Kawaja making 97 again) Warner and , but didn't declare until just before lunch on day 5. So clearly a good batting strip even up to day 5. After which Pak collapsed so quickly that Australia won by an innings!

Some commentators are left wondering "what price Pakistan?". Another (in the Guardian) made the memorable summation:
"The French modernist architect Le Corbusier was famed for his theory that houses were machines for living in. Its doubtful he ever perused the pages of Wisden, but if he could do so now he’d conclude that cricket stadiums around the world were machines for Steve Smith to bat in."

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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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A good, possibly great win by Australia. A demonstration of positive, purposeful cricket. Just shows how much sport is played between the ears.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960

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As you say, "between the ears" - but I think especially the Pakistani ears.
Many Pakistan sides have been notorious for being "confidence" players; once things start to go wrong they rapidly get worse and they no longer expect to win or even to hold out.

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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.

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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960

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Indeed Pakistani confidence hit a new low , as they lost the third and last test by 200 runs and the series 3-0.

One bright spot for them was the form of Azhar Ali, a classical test opener, who rarely looks troubled, and indeed batted right through one of their innings, making a big century in the process. A big weakness was the form and captaincy of Misbah ul Haq. in each of his 6 innings he fell for low scores (HS 30) to impulsive shots unsuited to the state of play. And his field settings for his bowlers (especially Yasir Shah) were far too defensive and limited their effectiveness (though too much looseness from the bowlers, though mixed with good balls, didn't help!). Although his man management seems to have stopped the team degenerating into factions over the years, and he has been a good batter in the past, it is surely time now for him to retire gracefully, the more so as he is 42 y.o. And it's likewise time to go for their other "old hand", Younis Khan, who had only one substantial innings in the series.

The Australians were made to look good, though to be fair Warner, Smith, Handscomb and Hazelwood (to name a few) were in excellent form. We shall see how they cope with the much more severe test of India in India later this year.

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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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In the first ODI match at Pune, England has once again managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

Those of us watching at home were pleased.

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Even more so than I was before

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Joe Root is quoted in the Guardian this evening suggesting that England need a better plan to deal with Kohli.

This is why he's captain material.

[Roll Eyes] [Ultra confused] [Help]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Jamat
Shipmate
# 11621

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In case NZ is forgotten. The Bangladeshis scored 596/8 declared batting first, bowled NZ out about 100 behind and LOST!

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Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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Bangladesh really stuffed up in their second innings and Williamson proved his star quality [as if he needed to] in the NZ second innings.

It is sad that Mushfiqur will have to miss the second test at Christchurch.

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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Joe Root is quoted in the Guardian this evening suggesting that England need a better plan to deal with Kohli.

This is why he's captain material.

[Roll Eyes] [Ultra confused] [Help]

Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to exceptional talent. Currently, I think Kohli is the best Test batsman in the world, the best ODI batsman in the world and the best T20 batsman in the world. And one of the best batsmen I've ever seen. He's special. I suppose this best in the world status isn't yet proven under all conditions, but that is just a matter of time.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Crossposted from the Death Pool thread as it's relevant here - Rachel Heyhoe-Flint has died aged 77.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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This time England got Kohli out cheaply, but Yuvraj and the old master, M S Dhoni dismantled England's bowling.

What really won it for India however was that they made 120 runs in the last ten overs. You don't often get that in T20s. I think a Plan B is needed when England are in the field.

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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England got pretty close and there was definitely some tension here towards the end.

Roll on Sunday to see if England can redeem themselves a bit and then next week the three T20 matches.

Exciting times.

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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged



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