|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Difficult relatives
|
Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Do most of us make up fictoricals as we go through life? Do we all massage the back story?
Possibly. I know that my brother's memories of our childhood are different from mine because, and we both agree on this, our dad set us up in a competition neither of us could win. He was supposed to be more like me (academic), I was supposed to be more like him (sociable).
Its only recently that we've been able to talk civilly to each other and recognise that the antipathy we felt for each other in our late teens wasn't our doing. We stayed out of each other's way until the last few years.
The sad thing for me (and him) is that we were not recognised for the skills we did have. He is, and was, very bright, and has gone on to own a huge business with offices in every major city in Australia. I spend my days engaging with people as a family therapist.
--------------------
Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
I think that people in the same family can have radically different experiences, perspectives, and understandings of those--because each person is different, and brings a whole world of personal history, biochemistry and wiring, senses, etc. to each moment of life. So, for example, if there's a fight at a family dinner, each person there will probably have different experience of it. Some will be able to accurately quote at least one side of the argument, others may have physically felt every bad vibe at the table, some may have been engrossed in conversation and just noticed a dull roar, and one or two may have been so focused on the food that they didn't notice a thing.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
|
Posted
I'm not talking about a difference of perspective - I'm talking about malicious demonization of a relative to any other relative who will listen and then creating a back story to justify it.
If I nod politely and say little, the stories from my sibling get bigger and more bizarre. I am often tempted to add to them in Monty Python fashion: "And they kept us in a shoebox in middle of road..." although so far I have only done that mentally.
And of course, should I say anything remotely sensible, this sibling can play the superior IQ card.
BL: glad to not be THAT smart.
--------------------
Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
|
Posted
people with high IQ can be very stupid.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
Sometimes very bright people can be very emotionally immature, as if they overdevelop the logical function at the expense of the emotional.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
|
Posted
posted by Banner Lady quote:
I'm not talking about a difference of perspective - I'm talking about malicious demonization of a relative to any other relative who will listen and then creating a back story to justify it.
Sounds very much like my oldest sibling.
But then again, this is something that started with one parent who was a world-beating performer in the field of revisionism.
Trouble with family events is that there are different levels of revisionism and trying to remember which branches of the family adhere to which 'truth' is exhausting.
--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
|
Posted
I wasn't just talking about difference in perspective - my brother hated me so much that even his wife found it over the top. I'm very glad we're working towards a better relationship now, but it was hard yakka for many years. The only thing that saved us was him living in Australia and me living in NZ so we didn't see each other.
--------------------
Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
|
Posted
I'm glad that a guy who's had so much animosity for years is now making an effort, APW. It's pretty unusual for that to happen until there are deathbed regrets. I hope things continue to progress well.
--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
|
Posted
It is good. I don't think we'll ever be bosom buddies, but I'll be happy to exchange greetings on birthdays and at Christmas.
--------------------
Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
|
Posted
You are most truly blessed. Wedding plans inhabit a particular circle of hell that I never want to revisit again.
Nine years ago one daughter who had meticulously planned her wedding for over a year, refused to invite the new husband of her sibling (who had precipitously married her asshole of a partner three weeks before in a surprise wedding.) Even though the precipitous wedding ended in a precipitous divorce, surprise surprise; the fallout from it polarised almost everyone in the family for many years. The siblings have only just begun to talk again, albeit warily.
Three people on a beach has a lot going for it as a wedding plan.
--------------------
Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
I've heard of sky-diving weddings.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I've heard of sky-diving weddings.
With or without parachutes?
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
chive
Ship's nude
# 208
|
Posted
My sister, in a stroke of absolute genius has got my mother on whatsapp and then created a group with my mother, my siblings and myself in it. Suddenly we have written evidence of the different ways she tries to manipulate us which we are finding most entertaining. We also have another group just between us siblings called mother watch where we discuss what is said on the original group.
The most difficult thing about it is making sure which group you're writing a post on.
--------------------
'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Genius, indeed!
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I've heard of sky-diving weddings.
With or without parachutes?
Parachutes for the wedding. Marriage is free-fall. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
|
Posted
What would you do with an extended-family member who calls on occasion to ask for random and sometimes even bizarre favors?
Case in point: This week DP and I got a message from this person, who'd been helping her temporarily infirm boss move over the weekend. "I've gotten behind on my laundry. Is there any way you could come over sometime this week and do a few loads for me? [/I] [I]If this is too much to ask, I understand." No further explanation; none forthcoming when she texted us about some other non-favor matter a bit later. No phone call.
After some head-scratching/headshaking...we went and did four loads while she was at work -- sheets and towels; we drew the line at clothing, because that would just be weird.
That evening we got a brief "Thanks lots!" text. Nothing else.
A therapist friend of ours suggests we need a refresher on boundary issues.
This isn't quite a Hell Call, because the individual in question has personal issues that make us feel sorry for her at times...but lack of ability to throw sheets into a washing machine is not one of those issues. Dayam.
--------------------
Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
I dunno-- it seems more of an awkward communicator than boundary issues. When caring for others going through difficult times, it's actually quite helpful to have this sort of very specific requests-- it can be so hard to know what would be helpful to someone who is experiencing something you've never experienced, to know: here's one specific thing you could do that would make my life easier would be really helpful. In this case, though, it doesn't sound like your DR is dealing with the sorts of extreme distress one usually associates with these things (bereavement, serious illness, etc.) but rather just normal "life" stuff, so s/he might be slightly narcissistic to imagine herself needing/deserving intervention that's usually reserved for more serious problems.
The abruptness of the communication is weird and off-putting, which might have to do with just DR's overall communication style, or the awkwardness of asking for help (especially if you haven't previously offered to help and in the absence of any factor that would warrant such). How does s/he communicate in non-favor ways? Is s/he always so awkward/ abrupt? Does s/he assume you should "just know" what's going on (problems, stressors) w/o having to explain them?
Again, doesn't sound like boundaries to me (but I would have probably washed clothing too so maybe my boundaries are different from yours) but more social awkwardness and slight narcissism. The big question that might knock this up to another level is how does s/he respond if you don't provide the favor? Is it really "no problem" or does s/he go into a hissy fit/ passive-aggressive pout?
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
cross eyed bear
Shipmate
# 13977
|
Posted
Here's one for you.
Mr Bear's sister (17 years older than me )has invited us on holiday for her 50th birthday. When I say invited, she has sent us a booking confirmation for the hotel.
We saw this coming and had tried to do some damage limitation claiming difficulties in getting time off. The holiday is now over new year. We generally visit my family over Christmas as they live in a different country to us. We arranged to join her for three of the days. The confirmation shows she's postponed the entire holiday so we can spend six days with her, her partner and another person in a small hotel deep in rural Germany.
It seems churlish to be complaining about what is essentially a free holiday, but this is a lady who has broken contact with all other family members and any previous friends over perceived slights (the latest of which appeared to be 'I don't like the clothes you've bought me as a present').
We spend 1-3 evenings a year with her, and they're strained. Her usual birthday parties involve five people sitting in an unheated flat (December birthday) listening to her talk about the minutaae of life in the German civil service in the hour long gaps between courses. The time before last, she didn't speak at all as her partner had invited a previous friend she had felt insulted by when he had chosen to go to his new girlfriend's party instead of her birthday party the previous year.
It's important that Mr Bear and his sister remain in contact, but the whole thing is a recipe for disaster. We're seriously considering cross channel food poisoning...
--------------------
"One false step in my direction, you'd better believe in the resurrection" Stillgoe & Skellern's "Mrs Beamish"
Posts: 120 | From: Southern Germany | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
If I were to offer advice, it would be along the lines of " Trust your insincts." (i.e.," bail, bail, bail.")
Several years back, my mom asked me about attending a symphony event that fell on the one night a week I had class. i flatly told her if it fell on a class night, she would have to count me out.
Come the week of the concert, Mom called me up and said, so, Thursday night, we are meeting at four and carpooling to the restaurant, and the show starts at..." I stopped her and reminded her I had told her I had class. She began railing at me about the price of the ticket -- basically, after the amount of cash sh'd shelled out, I'd better go.
The urge to weaken and cave in was strong, but it was the night of our final review, and it was my strongest class. She screamed, she demanded, she guilted, she whined. I would not budge.
She took a friend and had a great time, and I aced the test.
Moral: do what keeps you sane. Everyone else will survive.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
|
Posted
I'd say the same as Kelly.
You need to be very firm with your other half - in particular remind him that the difference in interests and outlook between your 32 year-old self and your 50 year-old SiL is as wide and deep as the grand canyon.
Say to Mr Bear that if its that important he keep in touch with his sister he should go but that it is unfair to expect you to be subjected to the same.
Then go out and book yourself a Spa break for the time that he'll be away.
--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
On the other hand, she is only 50 once and probably not made of money - so this is unlikely to be a frequent burden. Plus you have the opportunity to inadvertantly offend her so throughly that she never invites you again, (just your husband).
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
cross eyed bear--
Send her a Pajamagram (possibly something itchy), two sets of finger monsters (to keep her from phone and keyboard), and Shakespearean Insult Gum (to keep her mouth occupied, and either insult her or at least give her some better insults to use).
Then the Bears can go on a holiday--together, and away from her.
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
cross eyed bear
Shipmate
# 13977
|
Posted
Thanks for the replies. Golden Key, those links really conjure up a tempting picture!
It's a tricky one as although the outcome is something I really don't want to do, the intent isn't actually malicious. For whatever reason, she genuinely does have problems relating to people. Her partner does too, but in a very different way.
She and I don't have anything to do with each other outside of those 1-3 evenings. Mr Bear and her only e-mail from time to time, although he is the person she'll call if she has a problem. She actually lives quite locally.
I think the issue is that she's got the idea that such a birthday *should* be celebrated, and that is how to do it. I also think she doesn't realise that so much time is a lot to ask from people you're not close to. The problem is, I don't think she realises that a relationship with a close friend looks different to the one she has with us. This means that a simple "I don't want to" / "no thanks" most probably wouldn't be understood. Or, we'd be written off forever, and she does need her brother, even though it's not enjoyable for us. She's already moved the dates so that we can be there.
We had thought that damage limitation was the way to go - we could distract ourselves enough in the activities to get through a short holiday with her. It's unlikely to be repeated.
Mr Bear is a placid, positive creature and could do the six days. Probably. He's incredibly good at distracting himself and reframing things positively. I have too short a fuse, which is already burning with a mixture of dread at how I would get through the break and dread at what has the potential to go wrong.
I think the key is to shorten the experience. We just need to work out how...
--------------------
"One false step in my direction, you'd better believe in the resurrection" Stillgoe & Skellern's "Mrs Beamish"
Posts: 120 | From: Southern Germany | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
if you think he can handle it, it should be easy enough to fadge up an emergency excuse to get you individually out of there after a couple of days. Surely there's some major event you could commit yourself to, or some neighbor who's about to be hospitalized/come home and needs assistance, or...? If you don't know of any, I'd bet the local church does, and would be happy to have volunteer help scheduled.
[ 04. March 2015, 18:55: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
You could take lots of board games and play them determinedly - at least gives another focus for conversation and it is a very German tradition.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
|
Posted
research the local area and find lots of things that you simply 'must' see while you are there
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Come the week of the concert, Mom called me up and said, so, Thursday night, we are meeting at four and carpooling to the restaurant, and the show starts at..." I stopped her and reminded her I had told her I had class. She began railing at me about the price of the ticket -- basically, after the amount of cash sh'd shelled out, I'd better go.
The urge to weaken and cave in was strong, but it was the night of our final review, and it was my strongest class. She screamed, she demanded, she guilted, she whined. I would not budge.
She took a friend and had a great time, and I aced the test.
Moral: do what keeps you sane. Everyone else will survive.
Yay Kelly - way to go! ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) It was clearly an attempt to manipulate you into submission.
--------------------
A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Teilhard
Shipmate
# 16342
|
Posted
One of the difficult things to accept in life is realizing that one's relatives are simply human, therefore fallible, and some are just outright jerks or creeps or monsters … Most families are not anything close to the sweet happy "Waltons" or "Little House on the Prairie" …
It is okay not to like one's own mother, who may well be a manipulative "user" of others, or who may otherwise have a serious personality disorder … The tricky bit is loving (by one's actions) people whose lives are inextricable from ones own, due to family relationship … (We can choose our friends, but we don't get to choose our relatives …)
Posts: 401 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
|
Posted
Welcome to he Ship, Teilhard. Enjoy!
--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
Teilhard
Welcome to the Ship! We wish you a long and happy stay; if you feel like it, we have a place new arrivals can introduce themselves over here. In addition, you should probably read the Ten Commandments (again, if you have already—old hands, you might want to have a go at 'em again as well) and guidelines at the top of each board.
Just as importantly, though, welcome to Hell.
You see that warning at the top of the board? Of course you do, because you read the 10C's and board description! TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. Things can and often do get a bit nasty around here, and, while some of us choose to cut apprentices a bit of extra slack in Hell, it's not true of everybody—and it's required of nobody.
Also, suggested (re)reading for everyone: this page of the thread. Pure gold.
[ 05. March 2015, 14:26: Message edited by: Ariston ]
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Teilhard
Shipmate
# 16342
|
Posted
Happy to be on board …
As a kid, I loved watching Greg Peck as Captain Horatio Hornblower -- "Mr Bush … set the t'gallants …"
Posts: 401 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
At what point is it okay to tell cohabiting children that they might consider marrying? How many years?
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
Never? Because, you know, they've probably already considered it themselves and decided not to for personal reasons, and it's none of the parent's damn business?
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
Yes, I know. That's what everyone says. Just confirming because I have a yearning. Officially for the gov't they are a common-law couple, with people suggesting calling him her "partner" which doesn't work well because partner is also used for business, I have 3 partners myself. Special friend maybe? it's used in obits.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Yes, I know. That's what everyone says. Just confirming because I have a yearning. Officially for the gov't they are a common-law couple, with people suggesting calling him her "partner" which doesn't work well because partner is also used for business, I have 3 partners myself. Special friend maybe? it's used in obits.
Around here the obits usually say "companion," but that could be a pet dog.
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
You could go down my father's route: common-law-husband/wife and bastard children. Warning: it will not enamour you to your child.
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
I've thought of bribery.
No, I just never say anything, never have, striving to be be accepting and kind.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
|
Posted
surely a great deal depends on how you say it?
There is dictatorial statement you should do it, or there is the gentle interested in yor life question asking do you think you ever will do it?
always being prepared to shut up if the answer is it's got nothing to do with you...
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
There's also getting a third party (like a friendly pastor or lawyer) to inquire for you. I mention this because we've had to deal with any number of fucked-up situations where a couple never got around to marrying or putting any OTHER legal protections in place, one died, and the legal next-of-kin walked off with all the assets, leaving the spouse equivalent with nothing.
I mean, if they've decided against it and are fully aware of what they're choosing, that's one thing. But not everyone is that clueful.
[ 05. March 2015, 23:01: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
At what point is it okay to tell cohabiting children that they might consider marrying? How many years?
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Never? Because, you know, they've probably already considered it themselves and decided not to for personal reasons, and it's none of the parent's damn business?
Isn't that just one of those "mom" (or dad) things?
We're always butting our noses in where they don't belong. That comes with the package. And the payback is the kids get to complain about us to their friends and roll their eyes behind our backs.
Sure, tone is everything. You will sound naggy-- there's no getting around that. But IMHO there are worse things in the world than sounding naggy, especially for a parent. So don't say it every single time you get together-- that gets old fast. What you don't want to sound is controlling or critical, especially of the partner. And avoid that heavy whiff of passive-aggressive that is the defining odor of difficult relatives.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
|
Posted
Lamb Chopped: In Canada, as No Prophet already knows, if you co-habit for one year, you are considered married in common law. The government doesn't care, so long as they get their cut of taxes. It's none of his damned business and I would hope that if he does say something that he gets told off sharply.
He can always pray that they see the light. That works too. And there is nothing wrong with being a partner. Church-married or not, isn't that what they are?
--------------------
Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Canada's lucky, then. We have practically NO common-law marriage states anymore, and I really hate having to pick up the pieces when some of our immigrants (who don't know the law and tend to be nervous of lawyers) do things that result in mother and child(ren) being left in abject poverty. (We've had it happen several times. Usually in combination with the boyfriend/father having insisted on his name being left OFF the birth certificates, so as to facilitate welfare fraud. Which leaves his family with no way of proving next-of-kinship when he gets shot in a drive-by gang shooting.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
LC --
Uncle Pete's right, but only so far as the two in the relationship are concerned. Not for purposes of inheritance. Unless there's a will or a registered marriage, a dead person is considered single for purposes of inheritance. For example, a "common law" partner gets nothing if there is not a specific bequest, and the estate goes to the children of a previous marriage, if there was one, or to the heirs the deceased would have if not married (eg parents, siblings).
As well, in the event that a former spouse has been named as the beneficiary of an insurance policy or the like, entering into a second marriage would probably remind a person to change the designation. Because "common law" status just happens. that change is far less likely to occur.
(I put "common law" like that because I have been assured by lawyers in Ontario that although the status in question is like what used to be called "common law", it actually isn't. But that's just a question of nomenclature.)
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
|
Posted
JH is, of course, correct. I had written but, in the final draft had not included, a discussion of wills and insurances, but did not wish to clutter the thread with what should be another thread.
PS: My eldest brother married twice. All insurance policies had beneficiary changes, but one which named his former spouse by name. There was fur flying after this, but after wife 1 assured wife 2 that any proceeds would go to his two adult sons (who had not been named in the will), things calmed down. So it is not just common law spouses that should be careful, but also second et seq. wives.
[ 06. March 2015, 04:38: Message edited by: Uncle Pete ]
--------------------
Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
|
Posted
Thanks for that Pete.
My late lamented left a substantial life insurance - which had the name of an ex partner, so they got the money BUT, since they were an ex, the estate got to pay the tax due.
Yes, there had been a 'gentleman's agreement' supposedly on the money coming to our children but that wasn't honoured.
--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
We've had it happen several times . . . so as to facilitate welfare fraud. Which leaves his family with no way of proving next-of-kinship when he gets shot in a drive-by gang shooting.
Never learned the lesson of the sins of the fathers being visited upon the sons, then?
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
At what point is it okay to tell cohabiting children that they might consider marrying? How many years?
It isn't! Ever.
But as a good parent, you point out that they might want to consider making wills to make sure that money / goods went where they wanted and the other half was provided for. If they haven't already.
Tubbs
[ 06. March 2015, 14:22: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
|
Posted
Yes - but the tax implications for the surviving partner will still be different (less favourable) if they are not legally married. (In British law, anyway).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
)
