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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Miscellaneous questions of a liturgical nature
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
There's something that's puzzled me for a long time, and which for some reason now is really bugging me.
Many of the Common Worship Collects end with the formula, "through Jesus Christ our Lord, who is alive and reigns with you, in the unity of the Holy Spirit ...".
Now, I may be a mile off here, but surely in orthodox theology it's primarily the Father, not the Spirit, who is the ground of unity within the Trinity. And I know also the phrase appears in the 1662 Book and in virtually every book since, but what does it mean?
I must admit, I'm so convinced it's actually theologically incorrect, if I'm presiding and the people don't have the text in front of them, I usually elide it to "who is alive and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God ...".
But what does it mean, and why is it there? (Acknowledging that this one might have to go to Purgatory!)
I dunno, but it has been around since at least the fourth century. I also think you may be confusing the mainly EO idea that the Godhead is focussed (for want of a better word) on the Father*, and the property of the Holy Spirit to unify and bring into all truth. However, there are a lot better theologians on here so I will shut up.
PD
* - i.e. that is Son is eternally begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father.
[ 20. July 2013, 15:37: Message edited by: PD ]
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
How very Presbyterian of them!
The covering with white cloth of where the people receive communion is quite a traditional practice among Presbyterians, see Crown Court. It could be at the communion table which extends down the church or as in the Crown Court along the pews. There may well still be URCs that practice it, there were in the mid 1990s.
Jengie
I am reliably informed that the practice continued at Windsor Place in Cardiff until about seven years ago when the lady who had been laundering and starching the things for many years decided that she had had enough. There were no volunteers to take the task on from her, alas. I think of it as a Presbyterian custom (like communion tokens) - as far as the other bit of the URC is concerned, was it ever to be found in any (ex-)congregationalist chapels?
Cardiff was not the one I was thinking of, I think Basingstoke. No I have not heard of any ex-Cong doing it, that of course is no guarantee they don't exist or did not exist at some time.
Jengie
[ 20. July 2013, 16:28: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
How might I appropriately mark First Evensong and Compline of our Patronal Festival? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
How might I appropriately mark First Evensong and Compline of our Patronal Festival?
Sixteen cope vespers in the presence of a prelate, with censing of all the altars in the church during the Magnifcat, followed by procession of a relic of St Simeon and/or Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.
Compline sung in almost complete darkness.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
How might I appropriately mark First Evensong and Compline of our Patronal Festival?
Sixteen cope vespers in the presence of a prelate, with censing of all the altars in the church during the Magnifcat, followed by procession of a relic of St Simeon and/or Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.
Compline sung in almost complete darkness.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
If only!
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
Houselling cloths were a hangover from the middle ages, and seem to have remained in use...
...in Shanghai! At that big Roman Catholic joint in town.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gottschalk:
...Indeed it is in the unity of the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Ghost is the Love of the Father and the Son. ...
I think that concept of the Holy Spirit's role in the Trinity comes from St Augustine.
This is getting into the territory of mysteries to great to utter, but taken as a dogmatic statement complete in itself, rather than a partial and useful stab at the truth, it has limitations. It could imply that the Holy Spirit is less of a Person than the other two Persons of the Trinity. It also underplays His role as the dynamic action of God (Triune, not just the Father) in the world and all creation now and throughout time.
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Gottschalk
Shipmate
# 13175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Gottschalk:
...Indeed it is in the unity of the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Ghost is the Love of the Father and the Son. ...
I think that concept of the Holy Spirit's role in the Trinity comes from St Augustine.
This is getting into the territory of mysteries to great to utter, but taken as a dogmatic statement complete in itself, rather than a partial and useful stab at the truth, it has limitations. It could imply that the Holy Spirit is less of a Person than the other two Persons of the Trinity. It also underplays His role as the dynamic action of God (Triune, not just the Father) in the world and all creation now and throughout time.
And also after him, Richard of St Victor. Of course, it is not an absolute statement. Let all mortal flesh keep silent.
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Gottschalk
Ad bellum exit Ajax
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I'm confused about when to wear a stole over cassock and surplice, and when to wear a tippet. Any pointers?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Tippet for the offices; stole for Holy Communion and for officiating the sacraments of Baptism, Penance,Matrimony, and Unction. Tippet can also be worn at burials.
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
I'm confused about when to wear a stole over cassock and surplice, and when to wear a tippet. Any pointers?
Try never to wear a stole over a surplice. It's hideous. And it flaps about everywhere.
The English Use choir dress (tippet and hood) is so much nicer than the Roman (cotta and stole): alas that the CofE seems to have moved to surplice and stole for ordinations, rather than alb, stole and girdle...
There may be a possible exception for hearing confession or certain solemn blessings which require (although this is debatable) a stole.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
alas that the CofE seems to have moved to surplice and stole for ordinations, rather than alb, stole and girdle...
I think you should be grateful the CofE doesn't ordain in undergarments!
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh, but it does (usually)- just with other things worn over the top. Otherwise you would have a lot of- ha!- knickerless parsons !
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Groan and yet I'm still laughing!
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
... Cue the old joke about a lady who likes Nicholas Parsons and a parson who likes knickerless ladies.
Thanks for the advice earlier, all. I'm clearly going to have to go back to Trinitarianism 101. As always in such matters, I'll ask myself "What would +Kallistos say?"
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by Vade Mecum:
alas that the CofE seems to have moved to surplice and stole for ordinations, rather than alb, stole and girdle...
I think you should be grateful the CofE doesn't ordain in undergarments!
Thurible
So if the alb is an undergarment, what is the cassock?
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Not a liturgical garment at all.
Perhaps akin to a necklace.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
I see this on BBC News today (regarding the Royal Birth, in progress):
The Archbishop of Canterbury, who is likely to carry out any christening, has sent his best wishes to the couple.
Does the CofE offer christening anymore? I only know the US Episco-church, which to my local knowledge doesn't do christening. So, is it still a regular thing, or not?
Pearlie
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
I see this on BBC News today (regarding the Royal Birth, in progress):
The Archbishop of Canterbury, who is likely to carry out any christening, has sent his best wishes to the couple.
Does the CofE offer christening anymore? I only know the US Episco-church, which to my local knowledge doesn't do christening. So, is it still a regular thing, or not?
Pearlie
Um, do you have something other than Baptism in mind? Because 'christening' is usually a metonym for that...
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
All the time. In English English, at least, 'Christening' = '(usually infant) Baptism'. Or are you thinking of Churching (in which case see a very interesting discussion that Thurible started on this board a little while ago)?
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Because we're awkward, we had "The Parish Mass with the Baptism and Christening of the Boatgirl". Mainly to satisfy our heathen parents ("oh, why don't you call it 'christening' like all sensible people?")
We read that as "the dipping and anointing" but others might not have done.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
Um, VM, I'm sorry for couching my question in such a confusing way. Actually, I am pretty well sure about what Baptism is. Here it is again:
Is the BBC writer at least semi-in-error by referring to "christening"? Does the CofE offer a ceremony called "christening" (as a separate thing from "baptism") any more?
If the error in asking this is mine, I beg to apologize. We all must have mercy on those who ask questions. Thank you so much.
Pearlie
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Pearl -- I think what is confusing people is that in the CofE baptism and christening are the same thing. What do you think christening is if you think it isn't the same thing as baptism?
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
I was taught that 'Christening' was a mediaeval corruption of 'Chrismation', referring to the oil of Chrism used to confirm the candidate when initiation was administered by a Bishop (and at other times as well?). In my parishes I therefore eschewed all use of the term in favour of 'Baptism', since even if one does use the (optional) oils (I never did), the water is still the vital element of the sacrament.
I was a regular user of Thanksgiving for the Gift of a Child, and occasionally heard it described by relatives as a 'Christening'. In the preparation sessions I made the difference between the services very clear, and challenged any references to a Thanksgiving as a 'Christening', but I was more relaxed with relatives at the party afterwards.
For many fringers the Thanksgiving had all the elements of a 'lovely Christening Vicar' - a family-focussed gathering to celebrate the life of the child and its family, a blessing by name for the child, a special role for Supporting Friends, and lots of nice pictures before going to the party. They were precious occasions, and I loved doing them.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
Yes, what Oferyas said: For many fringers the Thanksgiving had all the elements of a 'lovely Christening Vicar' - a family-focussed gathering to celebrate the life of the child and its family, a blessing by name for the child, a special role for Supporting Friends, and lots of nice pictures before going to the party. They were precious occasions, and I loved doing them.
On this side of the pond, in years past this was a common thing. Sometimes done at the parents' home, or grand-parents'. There was no pouring or dipping or sprinkling. Nowadays clergy persuade new parents that Baptism is the thing to do.
Thank you all for wrestling with my question. So, the Archbishop will be doing the Baptism. Question posed, question answered.
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
To use the BCP formulary Baptism, commonly called Christening! My best guess on the origin of the word is that it is either a shortening of chrismation, as suggested above, or more likely derived from the Old English for 'to make Christ's.'
I tend to accept the old folk ways and words in church provided they are old. The church did plenty to alienate people in the 19th century and the early twentieth by getting rid of harmless, old and genuine folk custms relating to the Church Year in favour of that which is correct (TM).
PD
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
In English usage, christening = baptism. It ≠ anything else.
I doubt it's got anything to do with chrismation. I suspect that PD is right that it derives from something like 'making Christian'.
Those denominations that do not baptise babies have tended to talk of 'dedicating' them.
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
I think that it has something to do with the fact that until baptised a person is not really considered to be a Christian.At a baptism the candidate is given a name,a Christian name, often which marks the person as a child of God
The name was considered almost as important as the baptism and this was the 'christening' element of the baptism.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I've always thought baptism is to christening as a wedding is to marriage. I.e. the initial ceremony followed by the lifelong commitment. But that's just my private understanding and I accept that the terms are interchangeable in common speech.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
On this side of the pond, in years past this was a common thing. Sometimes done at the parents' home, or grand-parents'. There was no pouring or dipping or sprinkling. Nowadays clergy persuade new parents that Baptism is the thing to do.
Intriguing as the pressure is if anything the other way on this side of the pond.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
So if the alb is an undergarment, what is the cassock?
A style of coat popular in the 15th century.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In English usage, christening = baptism. It ≠ anything else.
I doubt it's got anything to do with chrismation. I suspect that PD is right that it derives from something like 'making Christian'.
Wiccan child dedication rituals are sometimes similarly known as a "wiccaning."
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
On this side of the pond, in years past this was a common thing. Sometimes done at the parents' home, or grand-parents'. There was no pouring or dipping or sprinkling. Nowadays clergy persuade new parents that Baptism is the thing to do.
Intriguing as the pressure is if anything the other way on this side of the pond.
Away from baptism and toward churching? If the latter is indeed alive and well over there I'm impressed.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
In terms of 'infant pastoral events'(!) Thanksgivings have increased slightly in number over the years, while infant baptisms have decreased significantly. Thanksgivings represent quite a small proportion of such pastoral events, with baptisms still being by far the larger group.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
On this side of the pond, in years past this was a common thing. Sometimes done at the parents' home, or grand-parents'. There was no pouring or dipping or sprinkling. Nowadays clergy persuade new parents that Baptism is the thing to do.
Intriguing as the pressure is if anything the other way on this side of the pond.
Away from baptism and toward churching? If the latter is indeed alive and well over there I'm impressed. [/QB]
Away from Baptism and towards a thanksgiving/dedication for a child. Baptism being either for the children of the committed parents who can honestly make the vows or adult only. Unlike a Churching which concentrates on the woman this concentrates on the child.
Jengie
[ 23. July 2013, 08:55: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
In terms of 'infant pastoral events'(!) Thanksgivings have increased slightly in number over the years, while infant baptisms have decreased significantly. Thanksgivings represent quite a small proportion of such pastoral events, with baptisms still being by far the larger group.
I must have mentioned previously a priest I know who stopped offering Thanksgivings-for-the-Unchurched when he overheard two mothers chatting in the post office.
"Did you have a wet christening or a dry one?"
"Oh, a dry one - the Vicar makes you go to church if you want a wet one."
Clearly, his attempts at catechesis about the nature of baptism vs thanksgiving had fallen on stony ground.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
Depressing! Mind you, the certificate we gave was endorsed This was not a service of Christian baptism (in small letters at the bottom!), so the designer of that must have had a pessimistic view of the catechesis in other parishes too!
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In English usage, christening = baptism. It ≠ anything else.
I doubt it's got anything to do with chrismation. I suspect that PD is right that it derives from something like 'making Christian'.
Wiccan child dedication rituals are sometimes similarly known as a "wiccaning."
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
On this side of the pond, in years past this was a common thing. Sometimes done at the parents' home, or grand-parents'. There was no pouring or dipping or sprinkling. Nowadays clergy persuade new parents that Baptism is the thing to do.
Intriguing as the pressure is if anything the other way on this side of the pond.
Away from baptism and toward churching? If the latter is indeed alive and well over there I'm impressed.
Largely dead. My mother got the impression that it was a form of repentance for the sin of getting pregnant and being generally morally grubby enough to procreate; if this understanding was in any way current amongst the population it's not entirely surprising it's mostly gone.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
My mother got the impression that it was a form of repentance for the sin of getting pregnant and being generally morally grubby enough to procreate; if this understanding was in any way current amongst the population it's not entirely surprising it's mostly gone.
Entirely false understanding tho. The 1662 Churching of Women liturgy is a thanksgiving for the mother surviving the dangers of childbirth. No hint of ritual purity in it at all.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Arch Anglo Catholic
Shipmate
# 15181
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Posted
As a good friend, who has a deep and disturbing knowledge of middle and early English and Anglo Saxon derivatives, has informed me, Baptism and Christening are the Latinate and English forms of the same word, just as with deceased and dead, inebriated and drunk.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck no matter what you call it!
Posts: 144 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
Wiccan child dedication rituals are sometimes similarly known as a "wiccaning."
As opposed to a "Whickerning", in which the child is ceremonially robed in a blazer and nose-moustache-and-glasses set, and sent forth to wander the world.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck no matter what you call it!
Or, in more poetic language, "a rose by any other name..."
This is an interesting point worthy of further (probably Purgatorial) discussion. I personally think the word you use really does matter. "Marriage", for instance, carries enormous significance. You can have something that is in every practical way equivalent to marriage and yet not equal to marriage because the word you use is different.
Though in this specific case I agree that there is no semantic difference.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Two questions:
Should I wear a cincture band on my cassock beneath either surplice or alb? I wear a rope cincture on my alb.
Should I purchase and wear an amice?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Two questions:
Should I wear a cincture band on my cassock beneath either surplice or alb? I wear a rope cincture on my alb.
Should I purchase and wear an amice?
I've come round to liking a cincture band with my cassock, but that's with a verger's gown, I suspect that with an albs and girdle it would be unnecessary. An amice would probably save ironing
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Two questions:
Should I wear a cincture band on my cassock beneath either surplice or alb? I wear a rope cincture on my alb.
Should I purchase and wear an amice?
A cincture is unnecessary when the alb is girdled (which it ought always to be), so it's your choice. I find that many priests find it uncomfortable to wear both at once, since they seldom sit in the same position.
Amices are obligatory, and their absence makes the baby Jesus cry. Besides, why waste such a lovely vesting prayer?
"Place upon me, O Lord, the helmet of salvation, that I may overcome the assaults of the devil."
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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Ceremoniar
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# 13596
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Posted
Many of our FSSP priests remove the band before putting on the amice, alb and cincture rope.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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TheMightyMartyr
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# 11162
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Posted
In many Anglican parish churches there is the "Bishop's Chair" usually slightly more ornate or at least larger and sits empty most of the time... is there a point to having one? Can anyone else use it?
I'm guessing it is a mini cathedra... but seems redundant, a symbolic chair in place of a symbolic chair...
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You cannot claim to worship Jesus in the Tabernacle if you do not pity Jesus in the slum.
Posts: 259 | From: the Land of Ingham | Registered: Mar 2006
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheMightyMartyr:
In many Anglican parish churches there is the "Bishop's Chair" usually slightly more ornate or at least larger and sits empty most of the time... is there a point to having one? Can anyone else use it?
I'm guessing it is a mini cathedra... but seems redundant, a symbolic chair in place of a symbolic chair...
But you need one for Pontifical Solemn High Mass at the Throne. Ours is used that way (on a platform on the north side of the sanctuary, facing the sedilia on the south side) but sits just outside one of the nave entrances otherwise. It could use a reupholstering...quite lumpy. Not that I would dare try to sit on it, mind you... ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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SyNoddy
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# 17009
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Posted
Ours comes in rather handy as a shelf to hold the flower bucket when doing the chancel windows
Posts: 53 | From: Somewhere near the Middle | Registered: Mar 2012
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Vade Mecum
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# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheMightyMartyr:
In many Anglican parish churches there is the "Bishop's Chair" usually slightly more ornate or at least larger and sits empty most of the time... is there a point to having one? Can anyone else use it?
I'm guessing it is a mini cathedra... but seems redundant, a symbolic chair in place of a symbolic chair...
The throne is for the diocesan (or area, if you have such) bishop, during Pontifical functions (masses, vespers, benediction). Prelates outside of their jurisdiction use the faldstool (like a curule chair sans back) when presiding, or sit in choir if not.
The 'correct' position for this is, as Oblatus says, the North side of the sanctuary, upon three steps which should nevertheless be lower than the steps to the altar; though parishes using Nervous Odor or similar often have it in place of the priest's sedilia, before/behind the altar or slightly to the south.
Nobody else should ever sit in it (unless you are a monastery church which happens to have an abbot with special privileges. Though I must confess: I have sat in ours, which is large and comfortable and horrendously baroque.
The 'point' is to remind people that Eucharistic unity comes from communion with the bishop, as the fons et origo of the Church in the place, and as the Ordinary of the diocese/diocesan area. It is, in a number of senses, His parish, and his church and his congregation. And so that he can use it when he visits, of course.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Posts: 307 | From: North London | Registered: May 2013
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