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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Crappy Choruses & Horrible Hymns redux
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
What's colonialist about that?
Unless you think that Christianity itself is colonialist and should never be communicated to people who already have their own religion.
Fair enough, perhaps 'colonialist' was the wrong choice of word on my part. But lines like quote:
In vain with lavish kindness the gifts of God are strown;
the heathen in his blindness bows down to wood and stone!
seriously slander many faiths whose purpose is not to worship a wooden idol and so, imho, have no place in a modern church where if we're not preaching active conversion of people of other faiths (and whether we should do that is another discussion) we should at least promote tolerance and understanding.
And the day my quote:
soul [is] lighted with wisdom from on high,
hasn't yet arrived, and I'm not singing as though it is.
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ferijen:
... quote:
...
the heathen in his blindness bows down to wood and stone!
A direct quote from Kipling (or vice versa) The 'Eathen
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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shareman
Shipmate
# 2871
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Posted
From Greenland's Icy Mountains. Ah, childhood. It is, of course, the marching song of 19th century Imperialism. Not that I was a child in Victorian England or anything.....
We whose hearts are lighted with wisdom from on high (good Victorian Christians that we are, most advanced and all)Can we to men benighted, the lamp of life deny? No, we must shoulder the White Man's Burden, now mustn't we? Thing is, I find the words funny, rather than offensive. I get images of earnest Victorian churchgoers singing it all sincere and everything, meaning every word. Now it's a lovely rousing tune, I still love singing it, but usually only when I'm a little tipsy and in the mood to cause derisive chuckles at other than my voice.
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Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob was a stranger in the land of Ham.
Posts: 516 | From: on a rock AND a hard place | Registered: May 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Shareman, that's an eisegesis, not an exegesis.
It doesn't say that, even if that's what many of the singers would have thought when they sang it.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Its interesting that many Africans today still see the missionary activity as the more glorious aspect of empire. It seems to be the part Europeans feel most sensitive about.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
And, contrary to popular blah-blah it was often opposed by the government.
In parts of West Africa they used to lock missionaries up.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Moth
Shipmate
# 2589
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Posted
I'm thinking of locking someone up after being subjected to Men of Faith Rise Up and Sing last Sunday. This woman of faith will bloody well sing something more to her taste very loudly if we get this sort of twaddle again.
[ 02. February 2005, 12:55: Message edited by: Moth ]
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"There are governments that burn books, and then there are those that sell the libraries and shut the universities to anyone who can't pay for a key." Laurie Penny.
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
I dunno - you get women of truth in the third verse.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Moth
Shipmate
# 2589
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Posted
Yes. And I'll be telling them the truth in love!
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"There are governments that burn books, and then there are those that sell the libraries and shut the universities to anyone who can't pay for a key." Laurie Penny.
Posts: 3446 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2002
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moth:
I'm thinking of locking someone up after being subjected to Men of Faith Rise Up and Sing
Recent threads have suggested that there are more women attending church than men. Maybe we don't need to tell the women to do it.
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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Moth
Shipmate
# 2589
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Posted
And maybe someone's trying to even the numbers up by pissing all the women off?
I'm working on my own version:
Women of faith refuse to sing
Meretricious rubbish to your king!
Just because Delerious wrote the words
Doesn't mean they're not absurd.
It's a work in progress.
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"There are governments that burn books, and then there are those that sell the libraries and shut the universities to anyone who can't pay for a key." Laurie Penny.
Posts: 3446 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Indeed it is crap.
quote:
We've been through fire we've been
through rain
We've been refined by the power of his name
We've fallen deeper in love with you
You've burned the truth on our lips
Why the sudden shift from "his" to "you" between lines 2 and 3? Is it just me that finds that jarring?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Probably because it was originally used in performance and there was some sort of instrumental break or change of gear or voice there.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Moth
Shipmate
# 2589
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Posted
Karl, it's so you can get that authentic "Jesus is my boyfriend" moment.
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"There are governments that burn books, and then there are those that sell the libraries and shut the universities to anyone who can't pay for a key." Laurie Penny.
Posts: 3446 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
We had "Men of Faith" introduced by the vicar saying, "Of course, the 'Men' is inclusive - it means women as well."
To which I pointed out the "Rise up women of the truth" verse.
We haven't sung that one since ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I've heard a great Wellspring version of this song, so I'd hate it to disappear altogether. But I've never sung it myself - the idea that men are called to do one thing and women another is not one I'm fond of.
For another 'him/you' switch, try 'Come, now is the time to worship'. It goes from
"Come just as you are before your God"
into
"One day every tongue will confess you are God"
Huh? I'm God all of a sudden?
And don't get me started on the complete absence of the resurrection from 'Lord I lift your name on high'.
You came from heaven to earth ...
From the earth to the cross ...
From the cross to the grave
From the grave to the sky
(Er, what about the earth again?)
The only reason for keeping this song in your repertoire is so your bass player can play the bassline from 'The Joker'.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shareman:
From Greenland's Icy Mountains. Ah, childhood. It is, of course, the marching song of 19th century Imperialism. Not that I was a child in Victorian England or anything.....
We whose hearts are lighted with wisdom from on high (good Victorian Christians that we are, most advanced and all)Can we to men benighted, the lamp of life deny? No, we must shoulder the White Man's Burden, now mustn't we? Thing is, I find the words funny, rather than offensive. I get images of earnest Victorian churchgoers singing it all sincere and everything, meaning every word. Now it's a lovely rousing tune, I still love singing it, but usually only when I'm a little tipsy and in the mood to cause derisive chuckles at other than my voice.
This reminds me of one of Andrew Rumsey's 'Strange Warmings' columns - 'Mighty Rivers of Praise.' You'll find it in the magazine.
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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shareman
Shipmate
# 2871
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Shareman, that's an eisegesis, not an exegesis.
It doesn't say that, even if that's what many of the singers would have thought when they sang it.
"The heathen in his blindness bows down to wood and stone." OK OK I can see the spiritual meaning of it, but it's still good for a chuckle. I nod my head about how it's spiritual darkness that needs dispelling by the Light of Christ that we have been most fortunate to have received. That, having been so fortunate to have received the wonderful Light of God, we have a responsibility to spread that Light to all. And that man alone is vile because man alone is vile and fallen everywhere, that's what it is to be human. I'll acknowledge why it's vain that God sowed His gifts in lavish kindness to those whose spiritual darkness and enslavement to the powers of evil prevent them from acknowledging the grace of the Giver of every blessing. In a way, I believe all of it actually, all sarcasm aside. But I'll still have a good laugh at the Imperialism of it all. Great fun really. And it sounds really good belted out of several people after three or four pints at the local!
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Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob was a stranger in the land of Ham.
Posts: 516 | From: on a rock AND a hard place | Registered: May 2002
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Wonderful thread, albeit of the deceased equine variety. I have spent hours reading it.
I am reminded of a New Zealand hymn, "upside-down Christmas" - which unfortunately the minister sems to like, and so gets trudged out each year. I think the fourth vers sums up pretty well what I hate about it.
"Right side up Christmas belongs to the universe,
Made in the moment a woman gives birth;
Hope is the Jesus gift, love is the offering,
Everywhere, anywhere, here on the earth."
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Belongs to the universe? New-agey, wishy-washy pap. Grr.
I also have the dubious privilege of being involved in music for the preschool programme. A few examples there, too, but they suit the children, I guess.
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
We sang a song in Chapel yesterday with the wonderful line
quote:
Dip your heart in the stream
Why????? Drink from it I could have understood.
(I attempted to remember the title and the authors but all I can recall now was one of them was Brian Brenton or something of that ilk)
However, the RC Mass in Chapel on Tuesday showed that the evangelicals don't have a monopoly on these things. I get worried when the best hymn is Amazing Grace.* The others were 'As I kneel before you' after Communion. 'You' here being Mary which in the context (I was kneeling before Our Lord not his Mother), and the second verse in particular in which we say we give her everything (to present them to my Lord at least), made it too Marian for me and it was bad poetry. The last verse was
quote:
As I kneel before you,
and I see your smiling face,
ev'ry thought, ev'ry word
is lost in your embrace
The recessional was 'Walk with me, oh my Lord'. This did at least acknowledge that the Christian journey is not always easy but:
quote:
Stones often bar my path
and there are times I fall,
but you are always there
to help me when I call
is just bad poetry. Some of the verses had rhymes between the second and fourth lines (as above) but I'm not convinced spent and strength do, nor mind and side and I'm sure blind and high don't.
Carys
*I'm afraid I'm not a fan, mainly I think because of overuse and a dislike of the tune.
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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quantpole
Shipmate
# 8401
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
*I'm afraid I'm not a fan, mainly I think because of overuse and a dislike of the tune.
I too am not much of a fan but i was at a church the other week that did it to the tune of House of the Rising Sun. It was actually really good (though I doubt you'd like it as it had guitars and drums accompanying ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
Posts: 885 | From: Leeds | Registered: Aug 2004
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
Perhaps it is the Lenten fast that is getting to me, but I had the oddest song pop into my head today... and what is strange that I recall hearing this ghastly, contemporary hymn only once (...God is merciful). I remember the service well - it was for teenagers, and during Lent.
I cannot remember all of the words, but the verses were on the order of "they gave me gall and sour wine for my food, under the weight of the wood." The refrain was "freedom can be found, laden down under the weight of the wood."
I realise, of course, that the lyrics must have been written by one who was trying to express that our salvation (freedom from bondage or something?) came through the crucifixion, yet I have this strange mental picture of Jesus' carrying the cross with this the image of his freedom...
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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testbear
Shipmate
# 4602
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Posted
I found a couple of friends of mine today taking great delight in fitting the words of "Heart of Worship (When The Music Fades)" by Matt Redman to the theme tune from "Ghostbusters". Alt-worship indeed...
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"If you really believe what you say you believe / you wouldn't be so damn reckless with the words you speak"
Posts: 127 | From: a town where you can't smell a thing | Registered: Jun 2003
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The Venomous Bede
Apprentice
# 7991
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Posted
Help! I have plenty of reasons for hating Mission Praise. Various members of our Vestry wish to buy copies and introduce it as the main hymnal (they currently borrow copies from the Presbyterians for their once a month navel gazing "Prayer and praise" service). We currently use A&M new standard. 90% of our congregation is over 50. We only have 4 teenagers at our main Eucharist on Sundays. Please can I have as many reasoned arguments as posssible to fight them off? The Hymnal I would love to use is NEH. My trouble is, I guess, that I find MP so ghastly I cease to be logical about it and lose my rag. Your suggestions please, or else they will lose me as choir leader and I will have to commute to St Mary's in Edinburgh on Sundays! ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posts: 7 | From: scottish borders | Registered: Jul 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Common Praise has a few modern songs in (the most popular over the last 20 years, not just any old ones such as MW has). Buy those and convince your vestry group that you then have all they need! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Venomous Bede:
Help! I have plenty of reasons for hating Mission Praise. Various members of our Vestry wish to buy copies and introduce it as the main hymnal (they currently borrow copies from the Presbyterians for their once a month navel gazing "Prayer and praise" service). We currently use A&M new standard. 90% of our congregation is over 50. We only have 4 teenagers at our main Eucharist on Sundays. Please can I have as many reasoned arguments as posssible to fight them off? The Hymnal I would love to use is NEH. My trouble is, I guess, that I find MP so ghastly I cease to be logical about it and lose my rag. Your suggestions please, or else they will lose me as choir leader and I will have to commute to St Mary's in Edinburgh on Sundays!
Ask the "yoof" what they want. Are they fighting for MP? Proponents of mor modern worship usually use "relevance to the yoof" as a pretext for ditching existing hymnals and liturgy. It might be interesting to find out if the younger element actually want MP or whether it is the Christian Blairites (modernisers) that do so.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Lumpy da Moose
Shipmate
# 9038
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Posted
One might be surprised what "yoof" might want in a service.
My own son, who has accompanied me to the choir loft on nearly every Sunday he was with me since he was an infant, plays in the youth "praise band" on his guitars (electric and acoustic). Imagine my shock when last spring he asked to join the adult choir. Hell, I didn't even know he sang, or for that matter, had an interest in it. Here's someone who likes the contemporary stuff, yet can and will sing the classics and the hymns with aplomb. Makes a father proud.
Even he admits that some of the "yoof" stuff is shlock, but he plays it anyway, since others like it and that's part of his personal ministry.
And, even tho' I don't care for the service, I join him and a few others and play for the contemporary service on Sunday. Yeah, that's me on that annoying bass guitar. Is it my taste? No. Is it part of my service to the Lord. Yes. Indeed.
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member, Our Ladye of the Bandwidthe and All Angels
Posts: 1035 | From: Gulf Coast, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
Many of the best modern hymns were written since Mission Praise was published.
It seems best for that tacky 70s/80s stuff which people who aren't modern think is modern.
IME anyway...
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Even the musician who was wheeled in to pension off my previous church choir (or at least turn it into a praise and worship group) admitted that Mission Praise was past its sell-by date. The church chose to ignore that piece of advice, and got rid of the choir but kept Mission Praise. And held a workshop to sellotape all the old copies back together again. Unlike poor Humpty Dumpty.
[ 11. March 2005, 20:41: Message edited by: Chorister ]
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
This is clearly the worst tripe ever written (first heard by me tonight in a church which shall forever remain nameless). Incidently, we sang an extra chorus which went 'myyyyyyyyyyyyy glorious, myyyyyyyyy glorious, myyyyyyyyyy glorious' or something.
As my wife said, it sounds like something written by someone who isn't ofey with spoken english. My glorious what exactly?
C
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arse
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Compare this. Gerard Manley Hopkins is turning in his grave.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Expatriate Theolinguist
Shipmate
# 6064
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Posted
I'd always liked 'my glorious', though I agree it's pretty crappy lyrically!
Delirious started out so well, but something changed early on and they've been crap ever since...
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Je suis une petite pomme de terre.
Formerly mr_ricarno, many moons ago.
Posts: 731 | From: Upstate New York | Registered: May 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr_ricarno:
I'd always liked 'my glorious', though I agree it's pretty crappy lyrically!
Delirious started out so well, but something changed early on and they've been crap ever since...
So... it basically has a groovy tune .
I'm afraid this song marks an all time low in my relationship with charismatic and quasi-charismatic evangelical christianity. We had young men waving their hands around in the half-mast-slightly-curled-fingers position. If they were really holy, they jiggled on the spot.
The worship leader was squeezing* for all he was worth. What kind of a weird world is it when that stuff is taken to imply sincerity? OK - the song is complete nonsense, but we are going to sing it emotionally as if it actually means something ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
C
*squeezing - tendancy amoungst young worship leaders (particularly men) to sing as if they are constipated and need more fibre in their diet.
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arse
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The Expatriate Theolinguist
Shipmate
# 6064
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Posted
Yep, I agree. It probably grows out of the rock-music world, but it doesn't really translate to the spiritual realm.
Particularly when you have songs which are the equivalent of 'Hey, baby, oooh, I want your body baby, ooooh yeah'. In fact, at Soul Survivor one year (oh yes, I used to go to that festival...), we were treated to this gem:
Hey Lord
Oh Lord
Hey Lord
You know what we need
Na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na
Jesus, you're the one
You set my heart on fire (x 2).
Profoundly moving, I think you'll find...
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Je suis une petite pomme de terre.
Formerly mr_ricarno, many moons ago.
Posts: 731 | From: Upstate New York | Registered: May 2004
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Calindreams
Shipmate
# 9147
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Posted
Try and get hold of a Jesus Army songbook and you will be treated to lines like;
Everybody's into Jesus
Everybody's kicking it live
Everybody's finding freedom
Dancing to the beat of the band.
and;
We're saying yes yes yes
To Jesus Christ
We're saying yes yes yes to him
We're saying yes yes yes
To Jesus Christ and no no no to sin
Chorus:
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes (baptised I've crossed the line).
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
(We're drinking the new wine)
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Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore
Posts: 665 | From: Birmingham, England | Registered: Mar 2005
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The Expatriate Theolinguist
Shipmate
# 6064
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Posted
Well at least that one's doctrinally explicit. Banal, and repetitive, and probably very annoying, but at least it doesn't relegate God to some kind of spiritual-orgasm machine.
ETA: except that one could read all sorts of things into 'yes yes yes yes yes yes'...
[ 14. March 2005, 13:40: Message edited by: mr_ricarno ]
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Je suis une petite pomme de terre.
Formerly mr_ricarno, many moons ago.
Posts: 731 | From: Upstate New York | Registered: May 2004
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
I myself have a fondness for
quote:
And we say yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord
Yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord
Yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord Amen
in context - Trading My Sorrows
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Calindreams
Shipmate
# 9147
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Posted
Another Jesus Army one:-
Universe universe
We feel your living soul.
Universe universe
Throbbing through the whole.
Posts: 665 | From: Birmingham, England | Registered: Mar 2005
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riverfalls
Shipmate
# 9168
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Calindreams:
Another Jesus Army one:-
Universe universe
We feel your living soul.
Universe universe
Throbbing through the whole.
I think that the Jesus Army lyrics that you just mentioned are profound in there simplicity and strong in their meaning
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http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/readings-listen.html
Posts: 1611 | From: Stoke On Trent | Registered: Mar 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by riverfalls:
quote:
Originally posted by Calindreams:
Another Jesus Army one:-
Universe universe
We feel your living soul.
Universe universe
Throbbing through the whole.
I think that the Jesus Army lyrics that you just mentioned are profound in there simplicity and strong in their meaning
The Universe has a soul? The Universe throbs? Have I missed something.
I don't want to dun a denomination on the basis of one chorus but that looks pretty odd to me.
--
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I have a love/hate relationship with 'Trading my Sorrows'. Firstly there's the idea that I can choose whether to have my sorrows, pain etc or not. Highly dodgy. Then there's the orgasm chorus. And finally the fact that the tune reminds me of 'She Drives Me Crazy' by the Fine Young Cannibals.
But then there's that 'I'm pressed but not crushed' bridge which suddenly brings a bit of non-triumphalism into the picture, and means I can't quite bring myself to throw it out of my repertoire.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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The Expatriate Theolinguist
Shipmate
# 6064
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Posted
The trouble with that bridge is it doesn't fit in with the rest of the song! A kind of evangelical doublethink...
Posts: 731 | From: Upstate New York | Registered: May 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The Universe has a soul? The Universe throbs? Have I missed something?
It certainly throbs.
We know there is anisotropic cosmic background radiation, and as far as I'm concerned all you need to do is be in a rotating frame of reference and that's throbbing.
As for soul...
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
Ken's use of "anisotropic" reminds me obliquely of the whole genre of 1960/1970 "relevant" hymns such as God of Concrete, God of Steel. Anyone ever actually heard this sung? I never have.
Frederick R.C. Clarke and Richard Granville Jones in The Hymn Book of the Anglican Church of Canada and the United Church of Canada (1971 edition)
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Wasn't that in 100 Hymns for Today?
I can feel my flesh creeping already.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
If ken could come back and explain anisotropic I'd be grateful. I know what aniseed is and I can't get beyond that.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Big Bang & similar ideas would imply that on a large scale - that is large as isn"the galaxies merge into the background dust" - the universe ought to be more or less homogenous - the same all the way through.
That in turn implies that the cosmic background radiation - that is the radiation that is left if you forget about all the light from stars, galiaxies, quasars, and eveything else you can see in the universe - ought to be the same intensity whatver direction its coming from.
It's not, quite, its sort of slightly blotchy. Anisotropic. Radiation comign from differnt directions looks lightly different.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If ken could come back and explain anisotropic I'd be grateful.
isotropic means having uniform properties in all directions independent of the direction.
anisotropic is the inverse - the anisotropic background radiation is not smooth in all directions. So if you upshift it to the audio spectrum in a rotating frame, you'll hear throbbing.
I seem to recall that the cosmic background is a B-flat, 57 octaves below middle C.
Just think of a really big Hammond B-2, playing a really low note...
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Thanks to ken for the cosmology and Henry for the etymology.
I suppose that just as the galaxies, stars and planets are "blobby" the background must be too. Maybe it would be isotropic (he says using the word for the first time) if the clumps hadn't formed.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Wasn't that in 100 Hymns for Today?
I can feel my flesh creeping already.
A red cross on a blue 'ink-marbled' background? Oh, the memory of it.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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