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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fucking Guns
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Legal gun owners do have a slight tendency to be the most dangerous, certainly true in the U.K.
"These guns are mine . The law is satisfied that I am the legitimate owner of them Therefore I can, if wish, legitimately fantasise about shooting people".
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
From a CNN article on this story:
quote:
Florida law prohibits guns inside terminals unless they are still in their case, but there is a bill before the state legislature to allow guns in public places like airports.
Is there no end to the stupidity of our species?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
From a CNN article on this story:
quote:
Florida law prohibits guns inside terminals unless they are still in their case, but there is a bill before the state legislature to allow guns in public places like airports.
Is there no end to the stupidity of our species?
Welcome to Arizona.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
--Interesting article, Zappa. I especially like the idea of rolling an out-of-control person up in a futon. I'm surprised that the Japanese police are expected to earn a black belt. That's a pretty high standard.
I don't think most of Japan's approach, per the article, would work in the US, due to the vast cultural differences and all the things Americans have mentioned on this thread. I'm glad Japan has something that works for them. I do question, though, the statement that people expect things to be peaceful, so they are.
--Re the shooter who took his gun along in his packed luggage:
The news yesterday showed a video of how that's legally possible. the gun owner has to put the unloaded gun in a hard case--plastic, wood, metal--that locks. I don't remember if ammo can be in the case, or in the luggage that carries it. I was thinking that one way to make things a *little* safer would be ban bringing ammo--whether in the case, the luggage, or on the gun owner's person. Can a search dog smell gun powder?
Air marshals should be able to have unloaded guns on/with them, with ammo nearby. Possibly also other law enforcement folks--when transporting a dangerous prisoner, for instance.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I disagree cultures can change and so can attitudes.
"There are also mental health and drugs tests. Your criminal record is checked and police look for links to extremist groups. Then they check your relatives too - and even your work colleagues. And as well as having the power to deny gun licences, police also have sweeping powers to search and seize weapons.
That's not all. Handguns are banned outright. Only shotguns and air rifles are allowed.
The law restricts the number of gun shops. In most of Japan's 40 or so prefectures there can be no more than three, and you can only buy fresh cartridges by returning the spent cartridges you bought on your last visit."
Excellent. If I lived in the USA I'd be spreading this message far and wide.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
If I lived in the USA I'd be spreading this message far and wide.
Many Americans try, but the National Rifle Association is enormous and powerful.
Among the many speaking out about sensible gun solutions is a former Congresswoman from Arizona, Gabby Giffords, who was almost killed by a deranged gunman six years ago today. Six other peope were killed, and others injured. She and her astronaut husband, Mark Kelly, are strong advocates of sensible legislation on this issue.
[ 08. January 2017, 12:25: Message edited by: Pigwidgeon ]
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--Interesting article, Zappa. I especially like the idea of rolling an out-of-control person up in a futon.
Of course that's more of an option when you can be 99.9% sure he doesn't have a gun.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The gun was in his checked luggage in the hold, so not accessible to him during the flight. Which must cause no end of headaches for security checking luggage for explosives, the gunpowder in the ammunition and residuals on the gun should trigger the alarms and be indistinguishable from a bomb without extra examination.
"He checked in an unloaded gun and ammunition with his luggage, and loaded the semi-automatic gun in the toilet after landing and collecting his bag. He surrendered to police when he ran out of ammunition." (from the BBC news report)
So that was OK then. He followed all the rules for transporting his (presumably) legally-held weapon. The rules work. He did nothing illegal until he killed people. Nothing to see here, move along. [/sarcasm]
[cont.sarcasm] It's also okay for him to have a gun even though he clearly has schizophrenia, because he hasn't had enough care from a psychiatrist to be entered into the "don't sell guns to him" list. Only the mentally ill who are stabilized on medication and under the care of a regular psychiatrist and probably not at all dangerous would be on that list. [/sarcasm]
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
...Welcome to Arizona.
From the linked article:
quote:
"There is never anything to fear from peaceful, responsible gun owners."
Because peaceful, responsible people never lose their temper and do something irresponsible. I'm so FUCKING sick of this stupid line of bullshit. Sure, all the children in Lake Wobegon are above average, but when it comes to guns, this fallacy kills.
My burg has been hit by several snowfalls, and apparently there were scuffles at some local fire halls over free salt. Salt. Just salt. It really doesn't take much to send ordinary people around the bend. And I'm also sick of the cliché about an armed society being a polite society. An armed society is a society where assholes can be armed.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
...Welcome to Arizona.
From the linked article:
quote:
"There is never anything to fear from peaceful, responsible gun owners."
Because peaceful, responsible people never lose their temper and do something irresponsible. I'm so FUCKING sick of this stupid line of bullshit. Sure, all the children in Lake Wobegon are above average, but when it comes to guns, this fallacy kills.
Agree strongly. Every gun owner is peaceful and responsible and law-abiding right up until the second they pull the trigger. How can I tell, before that point, which ones will STAY peaceful and responsible and law-abiding until I leave the Starbucks? Every gun-owner is Schrödinger's Gun Owner. You don't know if they're good or evil until you open the box -- that is, until they open fire. Even if I make it out of the Starbucks without any shooting taking place, the gunslinger then might go to the Piggly Wiggly and start shooting there.
The only RESPONSIBLE gun owner is the one who leaves his gun at home or at the shooting range, locked. Exception made for hunting but even there you're back in Schrödinger territory.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Legal gun owners do have a slight tendency to be the most dangerous, certainly true in the U.K.
This doesn't seem to be true in NZ where few of the gun crimes are committed by licensed gun owners. More are committed by people who have them illegally.
Personally I hate firearms and have no reason to want to own any, but a friend of mine D does own at least one (a hunting rifle - hand guns are illegal) and when he needed to renew his license he asked if I would be willing to be interviewed by the police officer who was vetting him, as we have known each other for over 25 years and he doesn't have a long-term partner. The interview, a small part of the vetting process, lasted over a couple of hours at D's house, but without his presence. I was surprised at the depth of questioning, and felt quite wrung out at the end.
It was obvious from some of the questions the cop had also talked to other people about D, including other hunters and the local head of the Police Armed Offenders' Squad, whom D knows personally.
At the end of the interview I told the cop I would rather no one owned firearms at all, but after knowing D for so long I understood better why he chose to and had never felt threatened by him having them.
I think the NZ system is far from perfect, and we still have too many firearms crimes and accidents.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
You don't know if they're good or evil until you open the box
It is beyond a binary issue like good or evil. Almost everyone will have witnessed, or participated in, an unintentional confrontation where a fight or argument resulted. It isn't only the bad person who shoots people.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
It is much more binary at the moment when a confrontation escalates. When an argument reaches the point where a punch is thrown, is not the first person to strike out in the wrong? When the fight escalates to a gun being drawn and fired, is not the person who responded to a fist fight with a lethal weapon in the wrong? A good person can, of course, do a bad thing, and that bad act doesn't suddenly make that person bad in general - but, in the specific moment the bad choice was made that was bad.
Ready access to a gun makes it easier for someone who makes a bad choice to make that even worse.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I was thinking that one way to make things a *little* safer would be ban bringing ammo--whether in the case, the luggage, or on the gun owner's person. Can a search dog smell gun powder?
A gun without ammo is pretty useless. So, would such a proposal not be effectively banning people from transporting guns in their luggage? In which case, why not just ban guns from luggage?
Dogs (and machines) can detect trace levels of explosives, and gun powder is just another explosive. I would, therefore, expect that they should easily be able to detect ammunition, and quite possibly gunpowder residue on a gun itself. One of the accounts I read said that this man had declared that he had a gun and ammo in his luggage, which would make sense if that was going to set off the explosives sensing equipment. Presumably it was inspected seperately because it couldn't just go through the normal channels without setting off alarms (I do similar when taking my scientific equipment on a plane - if the staff looking at the x-rays know in advance that they're going to see a set of metal cylinders with wires attached they tend to be less concerned, and I then open the case and get everything examined by hand).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
One of the accounts I read said that this man had declared that he had a gun and ammo in his luggage, which would make sense if that was going to set off the explosives sensing equipment.
It's legally required to fly with a firearm in the US - the firearm must be declared, and the bag (a locked, hard-sided container) must be inspected by the TSA in the presence of the owner, and then locked with a non-TSA lock (you can buy luggage locks here that the TSA can open with a master key - can't use those for firearms.) The bag is then sealed until the owner retrieves it at their final destination.
Ammunition must be carried in a container designed for that purpose, and not loaded in the firearm, though both the firearm and the ammunition can be in the same luggage.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
One of the accounts I read said that this man had declared that he had a gun and ammo in his luggage, which would make sense if that was going to set off the explosives sensing equipment.
It's legally required to fly with a firearm in the US - the firearm must be declared, and the bag (a locked, hard-sided container) must be inspected by the TSA in the presence of the owner, and then locked with a non-TSA lock (you can buy luggage locks here that the TSA can open with a master key - can't use those for firearms.) The bag is then sealed until the owner retrieves it at their final destination.
Ammunition must be carried in a container designed for that purpose, and not loaded in the firearm, though both the firearm and the ammunition can be in the same luggage.
Well, this latest incident has demonstrated the flaws in that set of rules very nicely, hasn't it? It merely means that airlines offer a particularly safe and secure method of transporting deadly weaponry to another location.
Of course, there's a more general problem here, because it's far too easy to transfer the guns from a permissible location to a non-permissible location when the permissible locations are in the majority. Whether it's particular types of places like airports, or churches, or the common observation that Chicago's gun laws are ineffective because Indiana is just down the road.
So long as there is a general right and acceptance of carrying guns around in public spaces, it's pretty well impossible to enforce small pockets of gun-free zones.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
It is much more binary at the moment when a confrontation escalates. When an argument reaches the point where a punch is thrown, is not the first person to strike out in the wrong? When the fight escalates to a gun being drawn and fired, is not the person who responded to a fist fight with a lethal weapon in the wrong? A good person can, of course, do a bad thing, and that bad act doesn't suddenly make that person bad in general - but, in the specific moment the bad choice was made that was bad.
My comment was more about seeing the gun issue as only a problem caused by people evil, bad or disturbed; not assigning blame to victim as well as perpetrator or removing agency from them either.
quote:
Ready access to a gun makes it easier for someone who makes a bad choice to make that even worse.
No argument here.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
It's legally required to fly with a firearm in the US - the firearm must be declared, and the bag (a locked, hard-sided container) must be inspected by the TSA in the presence of the owner, and then locked with a non-TSA lock (you can buy luggage locks here that the TSA can open with a master key - can't use those for firearms.) The bag is then sealed until the owner retrieves it at their final destination.
Ammunition must be carried in a container designed for that purpose, and not loaded in the firearm, though both the firearm and the ammunition can be in the same luggage.
Well, this latest incident has demonstrated the flaws in that set of rules very nicely, hasn't it? It merely means that airlines offer a particularly safe and secure method of transporting deadly weaponry to another location.
That may well be the case. Reporting, not necessarily endorsing.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Of course, there's a more general problem here, because it's far too easy to transfer the guns from a permissible location to a non-permissible location when the permissible locations are in the majority. Whether it's particular types of places like airports, or churches, or the common observation that Chicago's gun laws are ineffective because Indiana is just down the road.
Given the near-impossibility that the US Constitution would be suitably amended to change this, do you have any suggestions?
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
So long as there is a general right and acceptance of carrying guns around in public spaces, it's pretty well impossible to enforce small pockets of gun-free zones.
You may be right. Of course, for extremely small zones (a building, for instance) one can secure them fairly thoroughly and enforce gun-free zones. It's expensive, and generally unpopular, however - a cursory Googling can find the bazillions of complaints about airport security here in the US.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Given the near-impossibility that the US Constitution would be suitably amended to change this, do you have any suggestions?
Yes. Interpreting the US Constitution correctly. Go back a couple of generations and the Supreme Court firmly believed the bit about being part of a militia meant something.
It's not the text that's the problem, it's the interpretation of it that ignores part of the text.
And while you're at it, find some judges who don't think that a corporation can have a religion.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
This article is very much worth a read on the subject.
For example, the first legal article suggesting an individual right to a gun dates from 1960.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Alan--
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I was thinking that one way to make things a *little* safer would be ban bringing ammo--whether in the case, the luggage, or on the gun owner's person. Can a search dog smell gun powder?
A gun without ammo is pretty useless. So, would such a proposal not be effectively banning people from transporting guns in their luggage? In which case, why not just ban guns from luggage?
I don't want guns on planes *at all*. However, give that this long-time gun problem in American culture isn't going to change any time soon (if ever), and keeping in mind what Americans have explained throughout this thread, and keeping in mind all the many serious attempts to approve things...sometimes, there's a better chance of accomplishing a *small* thing.
So I figured that only the law enforcement people I mentioned would have any legit need for ammo during the flight. Civilian gun owners can buy ammo in their destination city. It's a compromise; but one that has at least a chance of working, because it allows gun owners to feel their 2nd amendment rights are being respected. Some people will resist it. But it might be worth a try.
quote:
Dogs (and machines) can detect trace levels of explosives, and gun powder is just another explosive. I would, therefore, expect that they should easily be able to detect ammunition, and quite possibly gunpowder residue on a gun itself. One of the accounts I read said that this man had declared that he had a gun and ammo in his luggage, which would make sense if that was going to set off the explosives sensing equipment. Presumably it was inspected seperately because it couldn't just go through the normal channels without setting off alarms (I do similar when taking my scientific equipment on a plane - if the staff looking at the x-rays know in advance that they're going to see a set of metal cylinders with wires attached they tend to be less concerned, and I then open the case and get everything examined by hand).
Thanks for all of this. Wow, re getting your scientific equipment through security!
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
jbohn: quote:
It's legally required to fly with a firearm in the US...
![[Eek!]](eek.gif) <reads to end of post> Ah. As you were.
I like the Japanese approach to controlling violence, actually. There is something very appealing about the idea of rolling violent people up in a futon and taking them off to the police station to calm down. Might work in the UK; wouldn't work in the US without a complete culture change.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Yes. Interpreting the US Constitution correctly. Go back a couple of generations and the Supreme Court firmly believed the bit about being part of a militia meant something.
It's not the text that's the problem, it's the interpretation of it that ignores part of the text.
And while you're at it, find some judges who don't think that a corporation can have a religion.
From your lips to God's ear. Pray tell, how best to *do* that? Did our bit this November, not that it worked out for us. I don't see much luck with this for the next four years, and probably quite a bit longer if Captain Cheeto gets to stack the SCOTUS.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
This article is very much worth a read on the subject.
For example, the first legal article suggesting an individual right to a gun dates from 1960.
Interesting article. Thanks for the link. The NRA these days, of course, is nothing like the NRA of my grandfather's day. The inmates took over the asylum.
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
jbohn: quote:
It's legally required to fly with a firearm in the US...
<reads to end of post> Ah. As you were.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I like the Japanese approach to controlling violence, actually. There is something very appealing about the idea of rolling violent people up in a futon and taking them off to the police station to calm down. Might work in the UK; wouldn't work in the US without a complete culture change.
I tend to agree - on both points. I like the idea of rolling them up very much!
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Yes. Interpreting the US Constitution correctly. Go back a couple of generations and the Supreme Court firmly believed the bit about being part of a militia meant something.
It's not the text that's the problem, it's the interpretation of it that ignores part of the text.
And while you're at it, find some judges who don't think that a corporation can have a religion.
From your lips to God's ear. Pray tell, how best to *do* that? Did our bit this November, not that it worked out for us. I don't see much luck with this for the next four years, and probably quite a bit longer if Captain Cheeto gets to stack the SCOTUS.
Yeah, well, I nearly threw in a comment about the problems caused by your court appointment process being so intensely political. Every time I see a picture of Mitch McConnell I want to reach through the screen and throttle him.
It's hard to see exactly where to untie the knot. I suspect the "simplest" answer is that the NRA needs the same kind of internal revolution that caused the NRA to become lunatics, just in the reverse direction so that the NRA becomes sane again.
Or alternatively, an alternative gun-owner's association that builds up a power base to rival the NRA and draws the sane folk away from the NRA. Given what some of the surveys say, the potential membership for an alternative exists.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Is there no end to the stupidity of our species?
No, I don't think so. I don't know how you want to assign the stupidity in this case, but there seems to be plenty of it to go around.
(Cliff notes version: Man thinks a book will stop a bullet from a Desert Eagle .50 cal handgun; is wrong. He surely earned himself a Darwin award, and may have also earned his apparently equally stupid and credulous girlfriend serious jail time. And she's pregnant with their second child.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Blimey, a half-inch round. I'd want a weighty tome between me and that. Like, a complete set of encyclopaedias.
(They didn't fire at a book first, just to see? So...they only had one round? Or maybe they only had one book...)
[ 02. July 2017, 21:58: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Is there no end to the stupidity of our species?
No, I don't think so. I don't know how you want to assign the stupidity in this case, but there seems to be plenty of it to go around.
(Cliff notes version: Man thinks a book will stop a bullet from a Desert Eagle .50 cal handgun; is wrong. He surely earned himself a Darwin award, and may have also earned his apparently equally stupid and credulous girlfriend serious jail time. And she's pregnant with their second child.)
He's failed to win a Darwin, as his genes have been passed on ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I mention without comment the shooting in the hospital in the Bronx that left two dead and five wounded, and the shooting in Little Rock Arkansas that amazingly left no dead but 28 wounded.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
(They didn't fire at a book first, just to see? So...they only had one round? Or maybe they only had one book...)
Or, for example, check to see if anyone else had ever fired guns at books. (Warning: that's a gun nut site run by gun nuts for gun nuts. You can probably predict the contents of the comments, should you feel the urge to venture there.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Another recent case: Saw headlines that a dad was teaching his two sons shooting safety, accidentally shot (and killed ?) his daughter, and said he thought the gun was empty.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Why the hell was he pointing and firing an empty gun at her in the first place ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Why the hell was he pointing and firing an empty gun at her in the first place ?
Probably showing how safe an empty gun is, which is directly contrary to Gun Safety 101: an empty gun is the most dangerous gun of all.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I used to only be sick of the pro-gun, NRA, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people," "My cold dead hands," penis envy gun owners, but lately I'm becoming even more sick of the half-assed timid measures of the "gun control," left who think we're going to significantly reduce gun deaths in America if we just get psychiatrists to forget about patient/doctor privilege and report all their mental illness cases. Oh yes, and known terrorists can't buy guns, yeah, that's going to make a big difference. I don't think any of that is going to make more than a half percent difference in all the crimes committed with stolen guns or the 4000 children killed by their parents' guns or the road rage incidents or the angry spouse incidents or the having a bad day suicides or the "just got fired," incidents like the hospital in New York.
I'm sick of being held hostage by the second amendment and all the people who revere the constitution above the ten commandments and all ordinary common sense. I'm sick of people like Gabby Gifford who can't see a good reason for gun control until the moment they are personally shot and even then only want to "keep guns away from dangerous people." Like that's a visible quality.
I don't think we're ever going to pass any of those insipid measures anyway so why not go for something sweeping like the gun control Japanese have? We would still have that oh so sacred right to bear arms that means so much to the weak and fearful and the NRA might be taken by surprise.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Why the hell was he pointing and firing an empty gun at her in the first place ?
Because he's an idiot. I heard that story, too. Apparently, he was teaching his sons "gun safety". The best I can come up with is that he's an idiot who thinks that "gun safety" is a thing for children, and that it's somehow magically not relevant to him.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
......an empty gun is the most dangerous gun of all.
Rather like an empty petrol can.
This thread has been ominously quite since T got elected.
Is it less shootings or less coverage this side of the Pond?
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
......an empty gun is the most dangerous gun of all.
Rather like an empty petrol can.
This thread has been ominously quite since T got elected.
Is it less shootings or less coverage this side of the Pond?
Crime statistics are not accurately reflected by coverage in the media. Anywhere.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Is it less shootings or less coverage this side of the Pond?
When the press is full of "What on earth has he done now?", there's not much room for anything else. (At least, in the real news. I'm sure there's always room for an extra article about a Kardashian.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
The T. team had proved itself to be a master at diverting attention when it comes to public information.
But when you also have a significant number of people who are voluntarily prepared to believe the Sandy Hook shootings was a hoax, it makes me wonder if we aren't fast moving to a place where traditional media reporting will soon be of little or no value.
Not that I'm eager to know about gun trouble in the US, it would nevertheless be intriguing to know if, for some unknown reason, the trend of lone shooters going out on twisted missions to dispense death and injury to strangers is finally in decline.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Not that I'm eager to know about gun trouble in the US, it would nevertheless be intriguing to know if, for some unknown reason, the trend of lone shooters going out on twisted missions to dispense death and injury to strangers is finally in decline.
The lone gunman beset on mass murder makes the headlines, but represents a small fraction of the death toll from guns. To cut gun deaths you need to do something about the accidents, the drunks in the bar who in most of the world would throw a few punches but pull a gun, and all the other ways people get killed with guns on a daily basis. Which basically needs at the very least gun ownership to be accompanied by safe storage at home - locked up, with ammo stored elsewhere, and not carried from the home except under specific circumstances (eg: hunting rifles taken out only when going hunting). Even better, no private ownership of guns.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Not that I'm eager to know about gun trouble in the US, it would nevertheless be intriguing to know if, for some unknown reason, the trend of lone shooters going out on twisted missions to dispense death and injury to strangers is finally in decline.
Your wish is my command: mass shooting data.
Not sure how they're defining mass shooting, etc. but there are some numbers to give an idea...
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
We've had that site before. Their definition of "mass shooting" is when four or more people are shot (not necessarily killed) in a single shooting spree.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Your wish is my command: mass shooting data.
Not sure how they're defining mass shooting, etc. but there are some numbers to give an idea...
H'mmm thank you saysay. Still looks depressingly consistent.
Clearly wishful thinking on my part...
...fucking guns.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
Don't bother calling the cops if you see a suspicious incident in the USA.
They'll shoot you.
And this time it wasn't even a young black man, who the cops seem to be trained to shoot on sight, but a middle-aged white woman , who happens to be an Australian citizen.
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Let's not rush to judgment until the facts come out.
That said, anyone who watches the various "cop shows" on TV knows that all too often the one calling the police is the one who ends up getting arrested.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, because I sincerely believe it: Law enforcement as a profession attracts bullies who want to indulge in their bullying under protection of law.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, because I sincerely believe it: Law enforcement as a profession attracts bullies who want to indulge in their bullying under protection of law.
There's a purgatory thread here: "How do we recruit cops if those who want to be cops are the last people who should be recruited"?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Although the thread in Purgatory isn't about personality tests, proper psychological assessment and testing goes along way when properly done by professionals by screening out the police applicants with authoritary, aggression, inflexibility in thinking, and other personality defects. And no, don' t give then Myers-Briggses.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, because I sincerely believe it: Law enforcement as a profession attracts bullies who want to indulge in their bullying under protection of law.
There's a purgatory thread here: "How do we recruit cops if those who want to be cops are the last people who should be recruited"?
It is also the training. Especially in America. They are inadequately trained in general and they have an us v. them mentality.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I was photographing a red berried elder * from a public footpath this afternoon when two police cars approached on a busy urban dual carriageway. One stopped a yard from me. A policeman got out, smiling at my quizzical look, we exchanged greetings and he asked me if I'd just been down by the massive prison wall, kneeling in the long grass, with my big, black umbrella strapped to my back. I said I had and showed him my pictures. He was perfectly happy that I had no ID, my being a white, middle class, older male sufficed. We shook hands and he drove off. England eh?
* Sambucus racemosa subsp. racemosa probably.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tukai:
And this time it wasn't even a young black man, who the cops seem to be trained to shoot on sight, but a middle-aged white woman , who happens to be an Australian citizen.
It's a white person 49% of the time, a black person 24% of the time, other races the rest of the time.
This poor woman is getting lots of press because she's pretty and Australian. You're average police shooting victim is just an ordinary white person, and as such, not newsworthy at all.
I feel so bad for this lady, she bravely went out in the dark because she thought a stranger was being raped. A lovely good Samaritan, killed in her pajamas. She had no place to even hide a gun!
The police may or may not be bullies, but in these shootings they almost always seem to be acting out of cowardice. She was walking up to the window of the police car and he was afraid.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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