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Source: (consider it) Thread: AS: Job Search Support Thread
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

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Good question. I don't think it would be too hard, unless the economy takes a total dive; the only reason it's taken this long is that I was detoxing from the last one. I've only been really seriously and strenously looking since early May, although I was warming up in April.

Charlotte

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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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Or maybe the questions are: "How important is security to you?" "What is most important?"

I'm one who has taken lots of job risks with the result that I don't have financial security...I have followed my heart and sense of call. I don't know which path is "best". My personal advice would be to finish toting up the columns of positives and negatives for each, which you seem to have pretty much done.
Then try and find some quiet and let your imagination (right brain/ucs/whatever you want to call it) join the rational assessment and see which position you are drawn to.
A wise spiritual director once suggested to me that when considering a new venture to ask, "What is life giving?"

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Amazing Grace,

I don't think it impossible that the economy may take a total dive in the next six months... but then I can't look into the future any more than anyone else can.

I do think that if you take the contract job, it would be a good idea to start looking for a permanent job almost immediately. Which would be a pain, but possibly worth it from the point of view of more interesting work, more marketable skills, better basic money (good bargaining point for future salary), not sitting on top of a great big geological fault all day, and so on.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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[Votive] For all of us looking
[Votive] For wise decisions for those with choices to make

(and a belated YAY! for HT)

--------------------
Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Managed to find a company in London that uses ontology-driven technology. I even spoke to an actual PERSON.

He's the only one over here, with most of the company being based in the States. He said it was a great time for me to be calling because there is more work coming their way than they can actually do [Yipee]

So I sent him my CV.

Interview with financial software house on Tuesday; then going on a semi-holiday for three days on Wednesday. (I really shouldn't, but...)

It would be great if I had such a big breakthrough over the next two working days that I could go on holiday with a song in my heart and not a care in the world.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

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Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

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Hang in there, Telepath! It sounds like you're getting "pings", which is good. That kept me going during the last period. I hope that you soon (VERY soon) have multiple options to choose from, as I did.

Blondie's "One Way Or Another" has been a bit of an earworm lately.

Charlotte

--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Yeah... I do think that the ontology-driven stuff is where I can make a difference. Having one potential hiring manager acting delighted to hear from me, and being urged to do a PhD, and being invited to give a presentation on the topic, and being asked to give advice to some colleagues that are new to it... all of that seems to support that idea.

As opposed to being asked "How many years of Java do you have? Oh." and being parked in a corner and stingily paid to do low-level tasks carefully targeted to exploit my weaknesses, while I listen to my colleagues boasting "I AM THE GREATEST, I AM THE BEST" all day. And being grateful because I couldn't get anything else with just an MSc and eight years' experience. [brick wall]

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:


Whatever it is I'm doing wrong, I wish I would find out what it is, stop doing it, and do whatever the right thing is instead.

I have never been unemployed this long before.

[Votive] Telepath I know how you feel. I have been out of work since the end of February. I have all of the skills in vogue: Access, Word, Excel, Quickbooks, etc. but always seem to be the bridesmaid and not the bride when it comes to interviews. I did a rewrite of my resume and plunked my skill set at the top, and I have been receiving more nibbles but still no job offer.

I went on an interview last week--startup company from a takeover that is based 5 minutes from my home. I thought I nailed the interview--I was articulate, showed correlation between the position I was interviewing for and past experience, etc., etc.was told that I was a top candidate and would know Friday. I followed up with a thank-you letter, but have not heard since. I do have two interviews for later this week--one at the diocesan house for part-time work and the other at a law firm for full time. At this time I'm working late afternoons & weekends at a mall store, but I would love to have a desk all my own to place my dish of chocolates upon.

The last time I was out of work this long was shortly after college--it was fun then but not now.

[Votive] [Votive] Prayers for all.

Dee

Posts: 297 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Originally posted by AlmostRev:

quote:
was told that I was a top candidate and would know Friday. I followed up with a thank-you letter, but have not heard since
Phone them first thing tomorrow. You've given them enough time to get their act together, so it's appropriate to ask now.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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Thanks, Telepath. I called & got the dreaded "we are away from the office recording" so I sent another e-mail. With the July 4th holiday smack in the middle of the week people are taking time off before (long weekend) and after (yet another long weekend). All except for my brother who gets to leave for Chicago at an unholy hour of the morning Thursday.

Dee

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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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waiting.................
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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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I go into the diocesan house for an interview this afternoon, then to a law firm tomorrow morning. I like the diocesan job, but it would be part-time (but a well-paid part-time!), even though my "night" job has been encroaching on afternoons and getting me extra hours so I could live with that. The law firm job is full-time--I have some Business & Family Law from the long ago & far away and I figure if I could survive working crazy clergy I could survive working for loony lawyers.

Dee

[ 05. July 2007, 13:55: Message edited by: AlmostRev ]

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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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I can't believe I just opted out of a temp. job! This was a sure thing, beginning Monday morning, but the more I meditated on the situation, the more it seemed like it was too good to be true. The recruiter (not one of the ones I work with) called yesterday before I was to hop the T to the diocesan interview, I rushed through the conversation, then the actual employer called, then I had to leave. I got home just in time to turn around and go to my p-t job and there were 3 messages from the recruiter. I got another call from her this a.m. just before I went out to another interview. I hastily said, "yes" but I still felt something was off. The recruiter's story about the situation was not the same as the employer's--I would be stepping into a job where a woman was taking maternity leave and expecting to return in 3 months whilst the recruiter's story was that she was being let go permanently. Bad vibes there--also possibly not legal given the employment regs. It also went from full-time to part-time--they didn't want me on Wednesday or Thursday supposedly because my trainer (the person I was replacing) wasn't in those two days. I ultimately refused it--after trying to talk with the recruiter & then talking with a colleague of hers who tried to pressure me into going anyway. God knows I need the $$$, but this was getting absurd. Intuition told me that this was not a good job situation.

I do have an interview with a company on Wednesday--and I have calls in to my contacts at the other agencies I work with so I will have to trust that God is at work in this.

Dee

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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Good choice. You are quite right not to ignore any intuition that tells you you would feel bad working for these people.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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Thanks Telepath. After doing the math it would have cost me over $30 a week just for parking & bus & subway fees, plus over a 1 1/2 hour commute to the job. I feel better about it today.

Dee

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neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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Just to second Telepath's support - you made the right choice AlmostRev. Lord knows there'll be plenty enough to deal with in the 'perfect' job -no point taking a position where you're going in feeling iffy/negative from the start.

Something, possibly, on the horizon for me ....

[Votive] for all job-seekers.

--------------------
Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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I really don't want to face the Mondayness of tomorrow, the resuming of the job-hunt.

Yech.

Prayers for motivation, and wise use of my time, and all that, oh yeah and good luck for Thursday because I think if I don't get this one, I really am frankly and finally effed... such prayers would be appreciated.

[brick wall]

Don't want to make phone calls. Don't want to bust my chops improving my skills because a lousy MSc just doesn't cut it. I'd rather... just... SING... or anything really. Clean out the grease trap. [brick wall] , [Projectile] , and [Help]

Dontwanna. Leemee lone. Just wish it would all go away.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:
I really don't want to face the Mondayness of tomorrow, the resuming of the job-hunt.

Yech.

Prayers for motivation, and wise use of my time, and all that, oh yeah and good luck for Thursday because I think if I don't get this one, I really am frankly and finally effed... such prayers would be appreciated.

[Votive] I know the feeling. I have an interview on Wednesday morning for a 6-month contract job. I have calls into all of my employment agents, but I am really tired of being perky & and answering the same questions over and over and over...

Dee

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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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In June, my fifth month of job-hunting, I applied for 51 jobs and was put forward for about half-a-dozen by agents.

Out of the 51 I applied for, I got one interview, and I also got one interview out of the half-dozen that agents put me up for.

The latter interview was today. The interviewer sounded disappointed by my recent experience. This usually happens.

The former interview is on Thursday. This is the one company (of three) from my specialist field that has actually gone so far as to make an appointment. If I don't get this one, I'll be very disappointed.

However, I have to be prepared for the likelihood that my recent experience will be too poor.

I made six new applications today. It is becoming more and more difficult to find places to apply to.

I followed up nine June applications today, and also checked in with three agents who had phoned me because they saw my CV on a job board. Of the agents, only one was in, and she had entirely forgotten about me and asked me to re-register. Of the nine applications I followed up, I actually got to speak to five people, none of whom had heard of me and all of whom asked me to re-submit my applications.

If I haven't gotten anything by the end of July, I will call up my old secretarial temping agency and ask them to find me some local jobs, for which I should be able to get about £6 per hour when there is work. This will mean accepting that I will not have a career, will not be able to pay my debts or meet my expenses, and will have to continue to be financially dependent on my 78-year-old mother until she dies, after which I assume my situation will get worse.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Please forgive my whingeing and whining and indulging in despondency. By doing so, I am also only destroying my chances of success, by flaunting my lack of faith.

I'm also aware that I am showing myself to have been a Job's comforter to earlier jobseekers, to whom I apologize.

Will you just, pleeze, pray that my interviewers take me to their bosoms on the 12th? So to speak.

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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quote:
Originally posted by Telepath:
Will you just, pleeze, pray that my interviewers take me to their bosoms on the 12th? So to speak.

[Votive] Prayers going up

The interview I had scheduled for Wednesday was changed to this morning because the interviewer wasn't available. It started out ho-hum, but then I mentioned that a previous job I had also had a contracting division and we did large scale projects where we did cost analyses, etc. and her eyes lit up and she started writing furiously and....offered me a job. It won't begin until August because they are moving their offices to a larger space and there is no room for me or my computer...but, the light at the end of the tunnel isn't necessarily an oncoming train. The company is an energy company from Texas that is laying pipelines throughout the Northeast, so it is a long-term contract. I never put the anaylis experience on my resume--who knew?

Keep the prayers going--I'm supposed to start there the first week of August.

Dee

Posts: 297 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Well, let's hear it for AlmostRev!

I just got turned down from the job I interviewed for yesterday.

In a very flattering way, though. Seems they thought I had a great background, put myself across really well, and that they were very keen on me as a person... BUT the job urgently needs to be filled, therefore they really needed someone who has already done something exactly like it. Apparently under other circumstances, they would have snapped me up.

So... tomorrow's interview is for the job I REALLY want. It would be nice if they offered me something right on the spot, like they did for AlmostRev!

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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grrrrrrrrr

Originally interviewed by Best-Chance agency on 20th June.
I know for a fact that references were recieved by one past employer by 25th June and returned the same day.
Silence.
Emails reassure me that they're waiting for the references to be returned.
Today July 11th I think to ASK them when the second request was actually sent out.

I heard the words "End of last week" and the rest is a haze.
I know I said absolutely nothing and that the reciever was placed on the table for safe keeping while I recovered my composure.
So THAT'S good!

Recieved a second call half an hour ago:
"Hello ethne, Could you just give suchandsuch a quick call please because they've never heard of you and can't give us a reference"

"Um, when did you send the request? Wasn't it only last week?
Well no. It was 21st June actually"
"oh"

It's being resolved as I type.
Best Chance agency gave my maiden name ....not my previous married name.
Suchandsuch had a dippy temp who couldn't work out that eth Could Just Be short for ethne.
Bless

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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Yay! for AlmostRev and for the forward motion for EA. Telepath, it is disheartening and soul-bashing to send resumes and letters out only to have them disappear directly into a black hole or the black hole that is preceeded by an automated 'received' message. 'Tain't nothing wrong with expressing that.

[Votive] for all of us looking and/or waiting to hear.

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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

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Horatio Harumph
Shipmate
# 10855

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ok, so big interview on wednesday morning, for a job i would really really love to land.

only thing is, i have always managed to get my other jobs with "not so serious" interviews. IE. in most places I had already been offered positions and had interviews as a formality, OR my interview was a weekend kind of thing where it was more a "discernment" thing.Now I am leaving christian work, and have a one hour interview, with a panel and not long to impress.

HELP!

I havnt done this kind of thing before, and so any tips would be great. thanks

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www.helenblogs.com
@helen_a13

Chocolate is proof that God wants us to be happy.

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AlmostRev
Shipmate
# 11571

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quote:
Originally posted by Lookin:
Now I am leaving christian work, and have a one hour interview, with a panel and not long to impress.

HELP!

I havnt done this kind of thing before, and so any tips would be great. thanks

A friend of mine told me to go into an interview with the attitude of "why should I work for company A" instead of "why I should work for company A" as a morale booster. I found late in the game that the more I tailor my answers to what the interviewer was asking I could have a successful interview. The last job I had was in a church, and handed to me on a sterling silver platter so actually hunting for a job was daunting and exhausting. Tailor the resume to what the company is looking for--and put it at the top. I am still waiting for final paperwork on a job I am to begin in August, but the interview turned into an offer when I mentioned a little used function from a previous job that the interviewer was looking for--that plus my theological school background (don't ask).

[Votive] For Lookin, Telepath and all who are in the search.

Dee

Posts: 297 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
les@BALM
The Ship's Visionary
# 11237

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I'm looking for Continuing Ed or Adult Ed instructors positions in Canada, any helpful leads would be appreciated.

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il sole d'Italia mi è rimasto nel cure
Italia campioni del mondo ****

Tiggs the cat.

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neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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<bump>
So I've got two job prospects; one is related to the dream job I didn't get some months back, the other not so fab but has lots of opportunities for networking which could lead on to something more. The trouble is they won't know whether the near dream job is actually going to pan out until the end of August and the other job starts Sept 1. Both are in other countries - which is fine with me. The near dream job is closer to 'home' but the other is a nice place to.

I will literally be homeless (currently in employer provided housing) in 3 weeks and am worrying about what to do if I get offered the Sept 1st job before hearing back about the near dream job.

Sorry if all that's confusing - just highlights how frazzled I am about this. Prayers for some clarity/guidence/direction and job securing luck would be greatly appreciated.

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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

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Carys

Ship's Celticist
# 78

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quote:
Originally posted by neandergirl:
<bump>
So I've got two job prospects; one is related to the dream job I didn't get some months back, the other not so fab but has lots of opportunities for networking which could lead on to something more. The trouble is they won't know whether the near dream job is actually going to pan out until the end of August and the other job starts Sept 1. Both are in other countries - which is fine with me. The near dream job is closer to 'home' but the other is a nice place to.

I hate the having-a-variety-of-prospects-on-horizon but the timing being such that you'll have to answer about the less good one before the good one. I'm still looking for something more interesting than my admin with a bit of translating -- basically I want to turn it into translating. Put one application for a big translation company on Tuesday (which was the deadline in the ad but the pack said 14th Aug),* there's another post with a deadline of Tuesday (but that's probably too high level), but the place I really want to work is advertising too now, but their deadline is 31st Aug, with tests on 21st Sept and then interviews 5th Oct. If I get offered the first, then it'll be long before the third has even tested. But I don't think I could take a job and leave it in a month for another one. But hoping not to get a job is weird!

*This is the second time I've had such a discrepency.

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

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Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811

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Neandergirl and Carys, I think if you get offered the lesser of the jobs prior to hearing about the dream jobs you should take it. Even if it means leaving shortly into the job, or you might find that you prefer the one you are in.

Neandergirl, I think it's a bit more difficult for you since your housing situation is also implicated, but I don't know how far apart the two new positions are, if you could move to somewhere in between or it's a big relocation. Maybe you could live in some kind of holiday rental apartment type accommodation rather than signing up for a years lease on somewhere. Praying that it'll all work out smoothly for you.

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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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prayers thrown around for us all....

Bestchance agency have dippy support staff- you know this when the boss apologies for them. bless.
Heavens do I really want to work for them? Well yes actually, I do.

Second screening interview needs ( needs, needs, needs) to happen and soon. We're going to be looking at a start date just as I return to school otherwise.
And that would be ...streching and challenging.

Training for volutary sector lot going well, about to start calculating benefits etc this next week. Which should be interesting.

This time next year training should be ended.
This time next year I will have completed a year with bestchance agency.
This time next year I could ( please, please, please) be looking at combining the two in a new post....?

Hugs for everyone waiting and searching right now.

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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[Votive] for all.

I am still waiting to hear from these people who are allegedly so keen to talk to me about a consulting contract. If I got that, it would enhance my career such that I could spend the rest of my life as a lovely happy cloud, floating in the blue.

I have an actual interview on Monday for a quite nice job, which would however not enhance my career even in the unlikely event that I got it - and who ever heard of that happening.

Please pray that someone calls me about the first job TODAY, please. I am going nuts here.

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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Prayers shooting T!
Patience here ran out this afternoon- rang bestchance agency and asked what was going on.
Given a load of eyewash and was about to thank them kindly for their help(?!) when my right ear was screetched into: the boss wanted to speak to me.
In the end he passed messages while talking on another phone and within one minute flat the date for 2nd interview was in my diary.
Result.

Next Wednesday 2pm I am to present myself, interview well and allow him to tick all the right boxes..."Then we can talk about a start date". Thank you. That was the point in contacting you, enduring a long interview, chasing references and running a CRB wasn't it?

What to wear? Oh and need new shoes....

[ 03. August 2007, 16:07: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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EA, wear a trouser suit or knee-length skirt suit in a four-season fabric like tropical wool or a cotton-and-synthetic blend. Linen blended with wool may not crease too badly, but it's dicey.

[We interrupt this programme to put a THIRD interview into our diary for next week - BUT I WANT THE CONSULTING GIG!!! Gimme, gimme, look who's never satisfied.]

I suggest a silk, cotton, or linen shirt in your most flattering shade of white.

Carry your stuff in a beige Kelly-style bag or briefcase, even if all you have in there is a pencil and a half-eaten apple.

Next are selling some camel-coloured leather Mary Janes that would be suitable for an interview. Because you need to be ultraconservative for an interview, make sure you get closed-toe shoes and not sandals.

If you are wearing a skirt, do not go into the interview without tights. Bare legs are absolutely wrong from both a business etiquette and a fashion perspective. Tights are also beyond the pale; it is important to remember that no form of hosiery is correct. My advice is to go in as a disembodied torso so that you will not be disqualified for improper hosiery.

As for your hat, get an "Ambassador" hat from Marks and Spencer, and make sure that you choose a size bigger than you think you need to, because their hats run small. To avoid hat hair, take a bobby pin and pin the front of your hair out of the way when you wear your hat, removing the pin and tucking it into the hat's interior band when you take the hat off.

No perfume. Too much risk that they won't like your choice of perfume and will disqualify you for that (really).

Unless your earrings are very plain, leave them off.

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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As Wodders would say,
"holding you all in the living, loving, Light!"

Posts: 4336 | From: Eastern US | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

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I spent almost three years as a "permanent temp", an employee of a temp service, farmed out to an oilfield exploration and finishing company.

My position was "switchboard operator" but involved 1,001 other duties, such as:

ordering office supplies;

handling both the company's and individuals' sensitive personal and proprietary information;

screening people who wanted to enter the complex through my barred-and-alarmed tight-security front door;

dispensing safety equipment;

fielding calls and doing administrative assistant type follow-up on both business and personal phone calls for a couple hundred employees,

and just about anything else you might think of.

The company designated my position as a not-very-important, entry-level job, thus not needing anyone with any major skills or experience or discretion... So you know how the pay was.

No opportunity for advancement (despite the "entry-level" designation), so last February I accepted a better offer (pending of course anything my temp. supervisor or the jobsite boss could do to "sweeten the pot" and convince me to stay... which they could not do).

New employer allowed me to give 2 weeks' notice, which in some areas has become a courtly old-fashioned rarity... but that's what I wanted, and they needed me, so they gave me that time.

First day working for the new employer was 1st of March.

Found when I came in that the staff had had a blowup and a change -- the lady whose position I was to learn so she could advance, had been summarily sacked. Apparently a manager at the sister shop in another town had some horrible 'Net usage on the job, and said lady had some dealings with him on the 'Net.

Wow. So there I was, walking in, all these strikes against me because I wasn't the fired lady, who had been the bosom buddy of the lady who'd trained her... And now, this left-behind disgruntled lady was supposed to think back two positions to when she used to do what I was coming in to take over... and train me.

She didn't show a lot of interest in actually showing me how to do stuff then letting go of it and letting me do it. She' get a question from me about some tricky aspect of a project, then she'd whisk it away from me and rapidly do it herself -- often just tweaking the one or two things I'd asked about -- then she'd send it off with her name on it!! [Mad]

Starting date of March 1st, remember -- then came the very end of March, and Mama, in another state, entered her rapid decline at the end of a seven-year fight with lung cancer.

The company, at headquarters/personnel and at the local shop level, showered me with bereavement benefits and paid sick leave and flexibility, whatever I might need to get my mother moved and settled to deal with her final illness.

(They are not bad people, even the intense bossy little lady who tried to keep hold of her job, her lost friend's job, and my job too.)

I handled Mama's passing, and even with all the travel and disruption in my life, I only missed a couple days of work.

Things progress. Early June, I am called into a meeting to address some things location manager wants me to adjust -- ratios that show us near the bottom on speed of delivery supposedly are low because of me.

My only part in the equation is that I need to get my hands on some paperwork and type it in by noon.

The people who handle it before me would often not even get it to me by noon. [Disappointed]

And the work I was not doing... I needed to do that.

Well, I was doing it. The management allowed the lady training me to take it from me -- supposedly for a quick check -- but in effect turning it into her work, since she would send it off when done.

The only times I ever did it with no interference I had to quickly and secretly finish it off and send it in while she was busy doing things that were supposed to be her job.

Fast-forward to the last few days of July.

A big national company in a related field buys our set of locations from the ones who owned it when I was hired. A better fit, actually, and literally stating that they had no desire for sweeping rapid change coming in.

Within 19 days I was sacked. I was carefully told that it wasn't for any negative reason -- no problems with my performance -- but that I, or more specifically my position, did not fit in "with the vision the new owners have for the Gulf Coast".

Offered an extra week's pay, reminded I had several hours of extra pay coming from vacation time, offered help to decide which way to handle continuation of my health insurance etc., so it's not exactly a nightmare scenario.

But still. What an irritation.

And to think the president of the new company had come to meet us and explain the "we want to move slowly, no radical changes" philosophy in person. There he stood, not two days before, and shook my hand himself, he and his dogpack, looking me in the eye and knowing they were lying the whole time.

I tell ya, if I drop by for a visit in a couple of weeks --

As former employees often do there, even the lady that was supposedly such an unprofessional horror and security and image risk due to her Internet usage --

And she/they wander around looking for whomever they've come to speak with! Into dangerous shop areas and everything! I tell you, that slack attitude on the part of management was a shocker and difficult for me to get used to, after 3 years running the front line of security in a lockdown facility on the previous job! --

Anyway, if I wander in there for a visit in two or three weeks, and see that they have obviously not eliminated my position, but have replaced me with someone 20 years younger and 20 pounds lighter and 20 shades blonde-er -- they will have a lawsuit on their hands.

I don't need to scramble for a job today today today, because my husband works, and Mama left me a little nest-egg... But I need to save that against future need. I do want to find something.

I could kick myself -- not for leaving the temp job at the oilfield company, that I had to do. I needed to "move up".

But I could kick myself for not chasing after the offers I had, while employed since then by this now-bought-out company.

Seems you always get interesting offers when already employed and are not in a position where it seems a good time to move. [Mad]

--------------------
I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Janine, how incredibly [Mad]

But on the other hand, let's look at the positives.

- You don't have to do your advanced temp job for entry-level credit any more.
- You don't have to do the job you were doing any more, and frankly from what you're saying it didn't sound like a great place to be. Apparently you were in a no-win situation which would never have ended well no matter what you did. And you would possibly have been killed in an industrial accident.
- You have other offers which, though you may have missed out on them, may still be worth chasing up in case they're still open, or in case they know of any leads.
- You have time to sulk; make the most of it.

Anyway... this morning I had my third job interview of the week. Great place, great technology, great market sector, great futureproofing, great career growth, great people, great fit with my skills and experience.

Feedback is that they think I'm really great, and the agent thinks that if I'd asked for [a bit of percent] less than my asking price, I'd already have been offered it, but they're worried about risking it because I showed myself to be weak in a key skill.

I said, why don't we suggest getting it in writing that for a trial period I will work for [a bit of percent] less than my asking price, and if they decide to keep me on after that, they guarantee to start paying me my asking price when the trial period is up.

So we'll see how that goes.

I have the meeting about the possible consulting gig tomorrow, which is why I told the agent I'd be mostly incommunicado until late afternoon.

I don't know what the consulting gig would involve, or whether I can help these people. The worst case scenario is that my helping them entails telling them to go to [company x], for whom I interviewed and who specialize in the kind of thing they seem to want.

I don't want to bite off more than I can chew.

I don't want to give an overly pessimistic view of how helpful I could be as a consultant, if in fact I can help them.

I don't want to blow off the consultancy gig only to find that today's company turned me down, especially if I could have done a great job at the consultancy thing.

I don't want to talk up the consultancy gig and then waste loads of resources and everybody's time because I overestimated what I could do.

Oh, yeah, and I don't want to be unemployed or skint any more, if that's okay.

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

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Yeah, key point there.

(Good point also re: I have time to sulk for a bit. That's a luxury.)

I was praying for a 'Net buddy having financial difficulties recently and asked

... please, Lord, would you send a bit more money her way? The Devil has had that money long enough -- take it from him and give it to us! Give us a chance to see what good we can build for You with it!

[ 10. August 2007, 14:15: Message edited by: Janine ]

--------------------
I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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What a day.

Shelled out nearly £30 (for the third time this week) and travelled THREE hours.

Went to the meeting about the possible consulting contract.

They are not sure they are going to go ahead with the project at all. I get to wait another week for their decision.

Just finished writing up a summary of what they discussed and my understanding of the project goals.

If I get this gig it will be four weeks' work at a pretty decent rate (at least, I imagine the rate would be decent).

Of course, it will take them an undefined amount of time to get their act together IF they decide to go ahead. So I could be waiting to start work for weeks or months, if there is work for me to start.

After the meeting I phoned the agent about the job I interviewed for yesterday. She had encouraged me to believe that making a concession about my rate would get me in. She got the feedback that I was a very strong candidate despite a specific weakness in one key area (which would have improved once I got stuck in, of course, or I wouldn't have gone for the job).

Flashback: I was very angry with this agent when she first put me up for the role. What happened was, because she told me that they wanted to interview me knowing my asking price. This particular agency specializes in new graduates and, therefore, most of the salaries are in new-graduate range. Needless to say, I'm not a new graduate and therefore my asking price is not in the new-graduate range. (This agency came to me, I didn't go to them.)

The agent tried to convince me that I was a weak candidate with poor skills and insufficient experience, and should accept a much lower salary because I had so little to offer, and it would be such good experience to have on my CV, and she was sure my salary would increase over time (I've never heard that one before) and, anyway, it was a really nice place to work and surely I should value job satisfaction over being able to pay my bills and stay out of debt. When I objected, she said she was just trying to make sure I was successful at the interview, since other candidates who were much, much stronger than me had accepted a similarly low salary.

I did not need to hear this kind of condescension after 15 years in the workforce, thanks. I stuck to my guns.

So, I went, and I made a jolly good show of it if I say it myself. My weaknesses in an important skill did show, but I wasn't getting "no" vibes from them; they were considering it as one part of a whole, and were treating the totality of my experience with respect.

Now, today, when I phoned the agent, I learned that they'd turned me down because of the weakness in that specific skill, which was fair enough.

However, normally an agent would be trying to comfort me at this point, while gently probing what I thought had gone wrong. Instead, she stuck the boot in. "Yes, they thought you were a strong candidate and you came across well, and I tried offering the concession you suggested yesterday but it didn't work because it's too great a risk when you aren't strong enough in X. You only have this much experience in X, and your skills in X were weak, and you haven't used X in a long time commercially or in any worthwhile context, and [with maximum emphasis] you don't have experience."

In other words, "I was right all along. You are a weak candidate."

Nice. I can see why they chose not to hire me, but I can also see why they might have hired me, and clearly, the hiring company could also see why. They aren't the ones trying to demean me in this situation.

But I am still unemployed. Today's interview marks the fifteenth company I have dealt with.

And now I have to wait a week to see if I get this contract. And after that, who knows how long.

I'm tired from working so hard and so late every day, preparing myself for interviews and following up on them and jumping through hoops of fire.

My debts have more than doubled.

There's a weekend ahead. I don't know how I'll cope with that weekend, or any of the next five days after it.

I don't know how I'll cope when the company I talked to today says they've decided not to go ahead with the project.

Please, God. Just no more.

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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[Votive]

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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[Votive] and ((T))

Still waiting to hear. Not sure where I'll be in 10 days but at least I know it won't be here. A change is as good as a rest right?

--------------------
Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

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I got s lot more rest at work than I'm getting right now, trying to get things in line to go back to work.

--------------------
I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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T - thank you for the clothing tips, loved the bit about what we ACTUALLY have in our smart bags:)
All too true.....

Managed to turn up and NOT look, sound or behave like a complete wreck.

Interview gruelling, was warned that in advance when reminded that I could stop it at any point, take a breather or walk around outside if neccesary.......

"Well that's all then, when would you like to start?"

Still think bestchanceagency are interesting, the boss called me back THREE times after I'd left...stuff he'd forgotten.
God Bless Him!

So that's me done for the next few years,
I'll pop in here and cheer you guys on from time to time.
Thank you for the support, it's been great.
You have been fab x

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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A round of applause for EA! [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

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Of course they wanted you because you are fantastic and qualified and so on, Ethne Alba --

But interviewers don't always pick up on our stellar perfection right away, bless their hearts.

So I'm sure it was your stunning mastery of Choosing The Best Accessories and Not Freaking Out that opened their eyes to your fantastickness.

Way to master the moment!

--------------------
I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
neandergirl

Opposing the thumb
# 8916

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Yay! Ethne Alba and may your yay! be 'contagious' to all of us on the board!

--------------------
Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee

Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811

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Yay to Ethne Alba!

Telepath, don't give up hope! [Votive] [Votive] [Votive] for those searching

Posts: 2614 | From: Midlands | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Well...

I do seem to keep getting turned down for jobs on the basis of experience.

When it looks like I'm about to make a deal, the prospects seem shocked that I am asking for the going rate.

Maybe the last eight years genuinely don't count for much. I ought to consider that.

My old workmate urged me to take any job I could get, even if it meant taking something that paid the same as, or less than, my old job. I wasn't managing on the money I was paid there, and it was very far below the industry average. But one possibility that I can't get out of my head is that I'm being punished for my poor money management.

I'm also remembering what the agent said on Friday: "YOU DON'T HAVE EXPERIENCE." She may have just been putting me down, but it is a fact that, as far as the market is concerned, I'm simply not someone with eight years' experience and a Master's. I'm someone with one year's experience of Java, who hasn't used Java commercially in six years.

So I've just now applied for a junior job that requires no experience and pays just under a third less than my old job.

I've looked over a few others, but they all seem to require experience in tools I haven't used.

I don't know whether to keep applying or not. I can't imagine that this tactic will do my reputation much good. I also don't think I'm going to know how to explain myself if I get invited for interviews.

And yet if six people tell you you're dead, lie down, right? I don't know.

Maybe I'm guilty of pride in thinking I can get the industry average? I don't know.

I very much don't want to take this route. Maybe the fact that I don't want to do it means it's the exact thing that I should be doing.

I also think it might be adding bad financial stewardship to bad financial stewardship to accept less than the industry average.

Of course, unemployment benefit is also less than the industry average.

Whatever I do, it seems to be a bad idea. [Confused]

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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I wonder Telepath if there might not be another way around. The computer industry is fairly young, though maturing fast. It is pretty recent, that they started looking at experience, qualifications and such. Before that they looked at whether the person could do the job. That was done by looking at work they had done, not necessarily in gainful employment. So if you wanted to write a compiler, you might get a PhD who had written a compiler in his spare time so as to be able to run programs he wrote for his doctorate in Mathematics rather than someone who just had a degree in Computer Science.

What it may mean in your case is that you need to think of developing a portfolio of work you have done rather than just gaining work experience. Possibly working at both at the same time. The portfolio may eventually allow you to leapfrog others with more experience.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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I had thought of that; the only reasons I haven't done it is that it would take a good many weeks, if not months, to develop an application complex enough to show that I'm capable of being hired at a level commensurate with my qualifications and experience.

Another thing is that building an app in my spare time would not count as commercial experience, any more than a Master's does. I think that protesting "but I have developed an application which uses it" will be just as likely to be ignored as anything else I might say.

Additionally, since job hunting takes a good twelve hours out of every day, I would have to give up jobhunting altogether in order to develop the app.

Just one app, not a portfolio of them.

--------------------
Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged



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