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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: (again) Winter 2012
Penny S
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# 14768

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Right. The Pantone finder is here. (You might have to type "red" into the search box.) I'm voting for Pantone 18-1664-TX, aka Fiery Red. Though High Risk Red (18-1763-TPX) is also a possibility.

I think you are right, though my screen doesn't distinguish between them totally effectively. The crimson is quite different from what the programme was using. And carmine is pinker than I thought from my Leichner stage stuff. They could have gone for the Scarlet Terror, couldn't they?

Elsewhere, someone has pointed out the Poe reference with the Amontillado, which I spotted but forgot, and another parallel with the Red Death. And apparently, there's one of those Holmes cases which was referred to but never written, like the giant rat, involving a red leech.

Didn't it have a look of the Olympics opening? (And there are those who think that was linked to a terrible plot to destroy the world as we know it.)

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Ariston
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Ada Lovelace is a general amazing badass, and deserves more shoutouts in general culture. I think she's finally beginning to get her due—between this and Nick Harkaway's Angelmaker (a pretty great book, by the way, for anyone who likes Who-style slightly campy and extremely whimsical doomsday aversion thrillers), I think she may become Steampunk's patron saint.

Loved the Tegan references. Came into this one hoping for a good #5 reference (though not much beats the Doctor's description of the Time Lords as having "dreadful hats and bad fashion sense," as well as another inside-the-TARDIS episode), and, as a Tegan fan, was glad to get one.

Groaned at the TomTom joke. Ah well, what can you do?

Strax...well, okay. I've been thinking about this one a lot, since he's pretty much ruined any ability for the Sontarins to be taken seriously ever again. But, in the end, that may be kind of the point. Who has enough warlike, invincible races that we don't need an extra one—and, in this post-Cold War day and age, the Sontarin breed of militarism seems more ridiculous than frightening. As the Eridutorium often points out, Who reflects its society; the scripts are part of the discursive field, a product of the form-of-life and mentality of those who wrote it. What do we fear today? That a massive army comprised of an Alliance of Evil is going to attack the free world? NATO vs. the Warsaw Pact is a fear of the past. Today, we have more to fear from the hidden enemies who look innocent, from men with box cutters on planes and children in Africa with very adult guns, than we do from Russia. What are today's terrors? The weeping angels are a facet of our dread of terrorists—average and everyday, kept at bay only by eternal vigilance—while the Judoon are the international peacekeepers, a neutral force that acts with single-minded determination, but, perhaps, does more harm than good...or perhaps nothing at all. A shadowy cabal of fanatics that answers to no authority and nobody can track down? That'd be the Silence. We've had a few good computer/technology based enemies (the ATMOS device, the wi-fi base stations) to play on that fear. Who are the belligerent leaders threatening their enemies that they will die in a rain of fire these days? Psy with a bad haircut, missiles that can't reach the targets promised with destruction, and a starving populace?

So we get Strax. Blind militarism for militarism's sake just isn't scary any more—it's ridiculous and more than a little pathetic.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Adeodatus
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I think the Sontarans were always intended to be ridiculous, and sometimes they haven't been ridiculous enough. The first Sontaran we ever saw, Linx, was a Blimp and a mess-room bore, and his story, The Time Warrior was more of a comedy than many nu-Who stories. I think the Sontarans were mishandled in their next two stories, before their creator, Robert Holmes, restored their image as militaristic idiots in The Two Doctors.

Strax is just ridiculous in his own particular way - a Sontaran out of his natural element, always longing to go and "play with his grenades". But there was a lovely moment in The Snowmen, after all his clowning earlier in the story, when the house was under attack, and suddenly we saw Strax the strategist and warrior. He wasn't written quite as well by Gatiss, but the fact that the baddie was killed by a Sontaran gun is an interesting point in the show's ethics.

All in all, I've grown rather fond of him.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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Strax is a wonderful character. As others have said, there are plenty of good warlike races, and if you want mindless aggression, you always have the Darleks.

Strax is one of those characters who you want to have on your side, but taking orders, and advising on strategy, although not running things. You do not want him on the other side from you.

What is more, he provides a useful sense of comedy warrior. He is deliberately poking fun at those whose only response to any situation is to blow it up. That is one of the interesting aspects of Who, that the response to a situation is never just force, although it is always helpful to have force on your side, while you negotiate.

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Aravis
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# 13824

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Does anyone have any guesses about where Sweetville was filmed? South Wales shipmates recognise a lot of the locations - the TARDIS library is in Cardiff Castle, for example, and the trailer showed some views of Castell Coch that turn up next week - but those big angular brick buildings have me puzzled.

I didn't get the Tom-Tom joke until my teenager kindly explained it. [Hot and Hormonal]

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Inanna

Ship's redhead
# 538

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I haven't been able to watch the episode again to check whether this is real, or a photoshop job... but apparently Charlie the Badger made a guest appearance in this week's episode:

http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/image/49702295591

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And all shall be well
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doubtingthomas
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
Does anyone have any guesses about where Sweetville was filmed?

If nobody does, this may be worth checking in a while - it's up to the Rings of Akhaten at the moment:

http://www.doctorwholocations.net/

quote:

I didn't get the Tom-Tom joke until my teenager kindly explained it. [Hot and Hormonal]

Me neither - this thread kindly informed me... (Judging from the groans, I expect the students I watched it with got the joke - although at the time I attributed that reaction to the general cheesiness of the scene, so I didn't ask)
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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Wikipedia says there was filming in Bute Town. And the Wikipedia entry on Bute Town says it was built with 48 houses in 3 rows...

And I can recognise the doors on the Bute Town website.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Was chatting to friend who thinks Clara is Riversong struggling to get out of Library. Would explain ease of her relationship with Doctor, and River knowing Doctor's name. What do you think?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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The Great Gumby

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# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Was chatting to friend who thinks Clara is Riversong struggling to get out of Library. Would explain ease of her relationship with Doctor, and River knowing Doctor's name. What do you think?

Sounds scarily plausible, at least in Moffatland, given that Mrs Song seems to be popping up again in a couple of weeks. There are lots of reasons why I think it shouldn't be right, but that's nothing a bit of technobabble and *spoilers* couldn't solve.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

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orfeo

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# 13878

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I'm back in classic mode. So, The War Games... pretty good, eh?

Except the last episode honestly drags it down a bit. I know in hindsight it's all supposed to be tremendously significant and all that, but while actually watching the story it was noticeably lacking in energy compared to episodes 1-9.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I'm back in classic mode. So, The War Games... pretty good, eh?

Except the last episode honestly drags it down a bit. I know in hindsight it's all supposed to be tremendously significant and all that, but while actually watching the story it was noticeably lacking in energy compared to episodes 1-9.

The first bit of the Time Lords' introduction is really good - an unseen force bending time and controlling the elements. It's set up for us to think the Time Lords are a force of nature. And then we actually see them, and everything from then on makes us go "Is that it?"

OK, there were limits to what 1960s tv technology and budgets could do, but a bit more 1960s imagination wouldn't have gone amiss.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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So, we've talked about how the showrunners seem to be throwing in references to past Doctors, but, in thinking about it, it seems each one of the shows seems to be in a style associated with each one:
"Rings"—First—Grandfather/granddaughter references—style is very much "let's go somewhere with high cultural significance," verging on the educational style of the very early episodes. Sure, it's cultural significance in a different time and place, but...
"Cold War"—Second—Ice warriors—base under siege story.
"Hide"—Third—blue crystal from Metabolis 3, involves a quasi-military character, perhaps working for an unnamed government ministry (like the Brigadier/UNIT)—story set in England, TARDIS never actually changes place, only time and very scary parallel dimensions/pocket universe (as in "Inferno").
"Journey"—Fourth—possible references to Time Lord memories being trapped, references to Time Lord regalia—extended chase set inside the TARDIS, as in last third of "Invasion of Time."
"Crimson Horror"—Fifth—Heathrow/"brave heart" Tegan references (and, well, ugly pink rubbery wormy/snakey thing that's supposed to be scary)—large supporting cast of companions, focus on interpersonal relationships. Not sure if historical England or institutional settings play a bigger role in #5's tenure than the did in others, or if that's just a generally Who trait.

Which makes me wonder—what are the archetypical settings/plot devices/tropes of Doctors 6 and 7? 6 I associate with Peri and the flashback style of Trial, neither of which are likely to be applicable to next week's Cybermen episode. 7 is just morally ambiguous and tries to push Ace from where she's comfortable by lying and otherwise being a bit of a jerk, which may actually fit with the 11/Clara dynamic.

We'll see.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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[Cross-post, obviously]

Well, they do show they can erase nasty gun-wielding folk from history without raising a sweat.

I think their sense of passivity is the whole point, though, creating a sharp contrast with the Doctor, and passivity is never going to be all that impressive.

Meanwhile the Doctor rants and pouts at them and complains about how boring they are. He might be over 400 years old, but suddenly he looks like he's that annoying child that the grown-ups are doing their best not to snap at.

[ 07. May 2013, 16:23: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I'm back in classic mode. So, The War Games... pretty good, eh?

Except the last episode honestly drags it down a bit. I know in hindsight it's all supposed to be tremendously significant and all that, but while actually watching the story it was noticeably lacking in energy compared to episodes 1-9.

The tenth episode is padded to the gills, mostly with attempts to escape that don't get anywhere. And, to quote Sue from Wife in Space, I wouldn’t have started with the Quarks, mate. You’ve blown your case straight away.
The first nine episodes are nine episodes of Patrick Troughton brilliance. (Phil Sandifer from the Tardis Eruditorum notes that Troughton rarely gets to play off actors as good as he is; here he has Philip Madoc and sparks fly.) And the plotting is pretty much padding free for nine episodes.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Which makes me wonder—what are the archetypical settings/plot devices/tropes of Doctors 6 and 7?

6: Graphic violence and adoration of the paramilitary saving the day over the Doctor. Cybermen will fit in perfectly. Oh, and the Doctor should be an ass. That part remains to be seen.

7: Dark, mysterious and somewhat godly. And just possibly began to be a factor in the Time War. Shouldn't be hard to fit that in.

Clara as River has several problems. The most major one is that I don't like it. I am still holding out hope that there is a link between Clara and Susan, as a fitting 50th anniversary twist. I admit I have no idea how that link will be accomplished.

The War Games, episode 10. Yes. Well. The whole story was being dragged out until they knew whether the series would be renewed. I can't really fault them for a quick wrap up once they knew.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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orfeo

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# 13878

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There's no evidence the series was under threat of cancellation except one persons faulty memory which is a season out.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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orfeo

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# 13878

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This whole thing about the Tardis not liking Clara... I had this sudden mental image of what's going to happen when River Song meets Clara. The Doctor will go to introduce Clara and before he can finish, River will snap "WE'VE MET!" and glare at Clara in that special way Alex Kingston can manage.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
So the Doctor taking Clara to an alien planet, famous for its singers but which has no connection whatsoever with Daleks, is part of him investigating her past? I'd really like some of you who put that idea forward to approve my expenses claim!

I thought at the time that if the Doctor's getting someone to travel with him he had to take her somewhere interesting to her before he took her to places where he could investigate who she was.
Having just rewatched it, he took her to an economy based around significant memories. And then he refused to pay for anything on her behalf. So she had to show that her mother's wedding ring and the leaf really did mean something to her. She's not some kind of double created by the daleks or Great Intelligence.
As usual with Matt Smith's Doctor, it's not clear whether he's just lucky or manipulative.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Having just rewatched it...

I'm in awe of your dedication! [Biased]

Out of curiosity, was it any better on a second viewing?
quote:
...he took her to an economy based around significant memories. And then he refused to pay for anything on her behalf. So she had to show that her mother's wedding ring and the leaf really did mean something to her. She's not some kind of double created by the daleks or Great Intelligence.
As usual with Matt Smith's Doctor, it's not clear whether he's just lucky or manipulative.

And that is a very, very good point.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
Out of curiosity, was it any better on a second viewing?

I sort of liked it the first time and I sort of liked it a bit more this time. I'm not going to declare it a classic or anything.
It's better than it would have been in the Davies-era with Tennant.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Speaking of rewatching episodes...
So I watched Rose the other day, just because of Clara's mention of a "shop girl" in "Bells of Saint John."
For all our talk (which I know I've certainly been feeding) of each episode matching a certain Doctor, I think "BoSJ" matches up with not only a Doctor (9), but an episode. Both involve a higher sort of consciousness (the Nestine C./The Great Intelligence) that uses highly advanced killer beings that look a lot like humans (the Autons/the mobile base stations), and, most notably, new London landmarks as the base of shady alien activity (the London Eye/the Shard). Oh, they both feature new companions and start the de facto series.

So, since #10 is making an appearance later, I guess that means that only 8 gets unmentioned, and 9 came out of order.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Trudy Scrumptious

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# 5647

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Thanks to the wonders of the Ship (and thanks specifically the wonders of a specific Shipmate who may not wish to be named since he might be overwhelmed with requests for more of same from North American Whovians) an envelope with 9th, 10th and 11th Doctor stamps arrived in my Canadian mailbox today! The internet is WONDERFUL and so are the Doctor Who fans on the Ship!

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Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

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Mudfrog
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# 8116

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Salvation Army viewing public are chatting elsewhere about The Salvation Army imagery in this episode.

The Victorian bonnets worn by the women were almost identical to the ones worn in the 1880s by our women.
The tunics worn by the young men, again, identical to some uniforms. There are pictures of William Booth wearing a similar style.

There was the mission/crusade scene of a female preacher rallying people to the cause, surrounded by 'Salvationist' supporters - it reminded me very much of Catherine Booth, William's wife, who was a formidable character and an excellent, outspoken preacher from 1861 onwards. There was an air of the temperance/evangelical movement in the rhetoric and language used - references to the apocalypse and the New Jerusalem, etc. So very reminiscent of Salvationist preaching in those days.

Even the match factory was 'Salvation Army' because Booth opened a match factory to put an end to the practice of using certain chemicals that were extremely harmful to the workers.

All in all, all that was missing was a march with a brass band and a flag!

[ 11. May 2013, 07:36: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]

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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

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Penny S
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# 14768

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What's the feeling about that imagery? I wouldn't be very happy about it - as I wasn't about one reviewer seeing Quakerism in Mrs Gillyflower (though I though that was mistaken, as seeing Salvationism would not be).

I think they would have been better to choose an imaginary style - and it isn't as if the period didn't have a variety of sects of varying degrees of fruitcakeness.

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Paul.
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# 37

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I only watched it once and then deleted it from the DVR but can anyone tell me: was there more point to the gribbly on Mrs Gillyflower's chest than the visual shock? It sent her mad but was there any connection to the rest of the plot? It seemed not to me.
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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I suppose there was something of the Salvationist idealism in the way the story was presented, but also other Victorian idealists - like the Port Sunlight development in Liverpool.

Looking at it from a different perspective, I think there is a lot of truth in the story, that some of these social experiments did have hidden agendas, and the concept and idea led to some of the disastrous social experiments of the 1960s, with tower-block estates. What is more, in those cases, people who went into that experiment often struggled to get out. OK, they didn't poison the rest of the world, but there is still some truth there.

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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:
I only watched it once and then deleted it from the DVR but can anyone tell me: was there more point to the gribbly on Mrs Gillyflower's chest than the visual shock? It sent her mad but was there any connection to the rest of the plot?

It was the source of all the red stuff that was paralysing or killing people. But it's true that as far as I can see it could just as well have been a South American orchid (as it is in Moonraker) or a chemical she'd cooked up herself.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Paul.
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# 37

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Oh, so that thing was the prehistoric red leech that Madame Vastra talked about? I must admit I didn't make that connection at all. I assumed the leeches would be, er, more leech like.

Ho Hum.

Quite looking forward to tonight, though I've never been much of a fan of Cybermen but if anyone can make me like then it's probably Gaiman.

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Roseofsharon
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# 9657

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I had forgotten that Doctor Who was on tonight - possibly an indication that this series has underwhelmed me so far

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Late Paul:

Quite looking forward to tonight, though I've never been much of a fan of Cybermen but if anyone can make me like then it's probably Gaiman.

Probably was a good try, the cyber mat things looked very good.
A moderate amount of implicit horror and 'oh crap' moments (although sometimes so many to be predictable).

On the Dr whomage (elements of 7th Dr Curse of Fenric? I bought it sometime after a ship recommendation after nuwho hotel episode)

But also saw Clara do being intelligent, and the kids came off quite well.

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Ariel
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# 58

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Not impressed by tonight's episode. Matt Smith overacting like anything (that scene with the Cyber Planner went on way too long), the kids underacting. More teasers about who Clara might be, more teasers about who the Doctor really is. Been there before. Yawn.
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Avila
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# 15541

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Well, underwhelmed.

The small person in chess playing robot was a good homage to The Turk (thank you Radio 4 for adding the story of the Turk automaton to my stock of mostly useless knowledge)

And the cybermen seemed to have merged with the Borg with the whole upgrade/adapting to the latest weapon etc.

I guess we have a link with Clara being told 'you're the boss' from last week.

Not worthy enough to give a lift after a long day and synod, resorting to the glass of red...

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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We didn't forget and today's show was the best yet. I won't say any more for fear of spoilers except that I liked it a lot.

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Eigon
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# 4917

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I thought it was brilliant! He used the psychic paper again, and we saw all the previous regenerations in his mind, and he used gold against the Cybermen, and Clara took command, and Warwick Davis was brilliant.... and what was that thing floating in space at the very end?

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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It was a hand - the Hand of Fear, perhaps?

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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balaam

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# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
And the cybermen seemed to have merged with the Borg with the whole upgrade/adapting to the latest weapon etc.

The Star Trek writers were influenced by the Cybermen when they created the Borg. Nice to see the homage returned.

I thought the way that Smith played two personalities was really good - it would have been brilliant if he could resist excessive gurning.

But top marks go to Warwick Davis, what a performance.

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Ariel
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# 58

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So this one ought to have been a bit Colin Bakerish, if the episodes are paying tribute to each Doctor in turn. Anyone spot any Bakeresque references? Apart from the Doctor being a bit manic.
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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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I liked this, but have already spoken to one mate who hated it. I forgot to ask him about a Colin Baker reference; I didn't spot anything but that is the era I know least well.

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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No, I didn't spot any Colin Baker references. All the chess references scream Sylvester McCoy.

But, for the record, Matt Smith is a frigging brilliant actor. When he was first announced as taking over the part of the Doctor, I was contemptuous ("He's too young!!!! And I hate his hair!!!"). But I was wrong. He is brilliant and I am pretty much at the point of buying every DVD of every thing he has ever been in or will ever be in. His performance in this episode requires some sort of award.

Any bets that the Name of the Doctor is "Who"? The Wife in Space would agree!!!

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
No, I didn't spot any Colin Baker references.

The best I can do is that there's a notorious Colin Baker story with cybermen in it and another one where the Doctor is evil. Still stretching.

[ 12. May 2013, 06:30: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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ACK
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# 16756

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quote:
Any bets that the Name of the Doctor is "Who"? The Wife in Space would agree!!!
Or maybe Hu.
Gaimen's offering was a relief. Something worth watching after what we have been served up this season (half-season?) so far.
Something to give Smith and Coleman a chance to show what they can do, and on top of that, it was worth it just for Warwick Davis.
I could not see any Colin Baker references (except the obvious one when they showed the 11 faces).
It seemed more McGann - Big Finish stuff, especially 'Caerdroia' - where the Doctor is split into the 3 aspects of his personality.

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M.
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# 3291

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Spoilers in here.


Interesting. I thought this was the worst yet, even worse than Rings of Ak-whatever.

I thought Matt Smith's acting was dreadful (I usually like him a lot)- what happened to his accent? The 'battling doctors' went on far too long for me.

I never liked the fact that the head of the cyberman was active by itself in The Pandorica Opens, and this was worse by spades. I liked the look of the cybermen, though. I quite liked the development of cybermats into cybermites but didn't like the way they were used - instantly starting the conversion process.

I didn't like the instant real time upgrades thing either but can't quite express why.

Warwick Davies was good, as always, and I thought of the Turk as well during the chess bit. The part with the little boy alone in the dark was atmospheric.

Why had the soldiers not noticed the tombs of the cybermen over the last 1000 years?

Perhaps I ought to watch it again but I don't think I can bear to.

M.

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Kelly Alves

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# 2522

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Smith's voice sounds kinda, I dunno, scruffy to me lately. Hope he's well.

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Gill H

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# 68

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The good stuff:

Castell Coch! I love that place, went there as a child often.
Warwick Davies
Matt Smith's battle with himself, especially the bits where he turned into Nine (Northern accent) and Ten (Allons-y!)
Nice upgraded Cybermen

The meh stuff:

Everything else.

It was OK as stories go. I wish they had used the theme park setting more. 'The Sarah Jane Adventures' made much better use of a theme park as I remember.

Anyone seen the prequel on red button?

It is looking more and more like Clara is somehow River.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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I felt that during the conflict between the Dr and the Cyberpersona there was the problem of "not being like Andy Serkis" which may have hindered a better representation of the two versions.

Also, I couldn't quite understand what the Emperor had been doing in the period between his arriving on the planet - when? - and the arrival of the Tardis. Why practice his Turk trick when there were no customers coming? Or have I missed something?

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Paul.
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# 37

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I enjoyed it but not as much as The Doctor's Wife.

There were lots of ideas here but many were still quite predictable. Maybe that's me. I've watched a lot of SciFi on TV and movies over the years. I must have seen the two-versions-of-the-same-person thing a dozen times at least, and the apparently-insignificant-character-who-turns-out-to-be-the-VIP a lot too.

I liked how Clara was written in this. She's supposed to be super-smart etc but this is the first time I've really felt that since Asylum. Interesting too that in an episode where she is the most strong, capable, intelligent we've seen her is also the episode where they've played up the attraction between her and the Doctor the most. Which regardless of whether you like or dislike that idea at least shows it's possible to do both.

I dunno about references to Old-Who episodes or Doctors but the chess thing was a bit of a nod to Douglas Adams I thought.

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Athrawes
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# 9594

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This is Sylvester's Mc Coy's Doctor homage. The chess was *so*. Mc Coy. I don't think they're revisiting the Doctors in order.

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Anyone seen the prequel on red button?

It is looking more and more like Clara is somehow River.

I wondered about that. Though I'm still holding out for her either being the Master or else that strange little girl who regenerated in an alleyway in one episode (can't remember any of the other details). Some kind of Timelord, anyhow.

Yes, I saw the prequel on red button, where both of them seemed a bit disillusioned with each other on realizing their respective identities, but that might just have been my take on it, and I guess we have to wait until they get to Tranzelore to find out why.

Maybe Clara is part of the spirit of the Tardis, or Rose's daughter by the other Doctor, fallen through a hole in the parallel universe.

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Athrawes
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# 9594

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I think the little girl who regenerated is River. She's the one kept in the orphanage with the photo of Amy, and she broke out of the space suit, so I don't see how she could be Clara.

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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.

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